Friday, May 1, 2009

Pop Goes the Rhino

Farmpunk and I had our rematch this week: Seize Ground with a Dawn of War deployment.

No pictures unfortunately. We both forgot to bring a camera. And my camera phone is evidently too old (4 years) to send a flippen' email anymore. Damned Verizon.

If you were to ask Farmpunk about the game, he'd probably describe it along the lines of a lascannon up the rear access point. But despite the utter massacre his forces endured, he still would have won had the game ended on turn 5. Or pulled a draw had the game ended on turn 6. That's the thing about Sisters of Battle. You have to kill every stinking last one of them. Because they're the most dangerous when their squads have been reduced to 2-3 models.

Turn seven began with a lone Sister Superior surrendering to my troops in the middle of the field. While his Inquisa-Lootas(tm) and Exorcist looked on from the corner of the board. In all, I lost 3 troop squads, a Chimera, 5 Stormies, and one Sentinel. In KP, it would have been something like to 9 to 5 in my favor.

Random Lessons/Observations from this game vs. our game from last week:

1) You may be tempted to put meltas or flamers in your command squads and hide them in the rear so they can counter-fire enemy troops that reach your lines. But honestly, just put a lascannon in the squad and stick them up front. It's far more important to stop the enemy BEFORE they reach your lines. 'Cause if they get to you you're dead anyhow. I did the former last game and the latter this game. The latter worked out much better.

2) There is absolutely no point in using a squad of scout Sentinels as outflanking tank hunters if you take autocannons instead of lascannons. So just suck it up and pay the extra 30 pts.

3) Sentinels are often used as tar pits to tie up enemy squads. But this was the first time I've ever seen stormtroopers (=I= version) used as a tar pit to tie up an outflanking Sentinel squad. And they did, for 3 turns after my Sentinels came on and popped an Exorcist with their lascannons! HAHA!!! Farmpunk was cursing the whole time that he didn't buy krak grenades for them. The Sentinels finally won the combat (1 wound to zero) and destroyed the stormies. After which they sniped the last two sisters off of an objective. :)

4) Think long and hard about putting sponsons of any kind on a Russ. They're way too expensive for what you get. Lumbering Behemoth means that you get a much better value out of moving your Russes and firing your hull weapon in addition to your main gun. I pulled the sponsons off of the Demolisher this game. I will very likely pull them off the Exterminator for the next game.

5) I've been on the fence for a while about taking my Leman Russ Exterminator (H4-TL Autocannons) vs. a standard Russ. But I really fell in love with the Exterminator this game. "Pop Goes the Rhino!" Plus, sometimes you need to lay down some heavy dakka without the risk of hitting your own troops.

6) Never, ever run a lone character towards a line of Imperial Guard and expect to live through their shooting phase. I don't care if you're a 10-foot tall Ork Warboss in Mega Armor or a Cannoness with a 3+ Inv save. Just don't do it. Given 20+ save rolls, you WILL roll enough ones to die.

7) I've said some really, really unkind things about the new 16-pt. Stormtroopers lately. But when I costed up a squad of five for this game and compared it to the old codex with identical equipment + deepStrike/infiltrate, the difference in cost between the two was only 11 measly pts. And for that 11 pts. I not only get AP3 lasguns, but I can also choose my insertion type (Deep Strike w/Re-roll, Outflank w/Pinning, Scout w/Move through Cover) at deployment instead of when the list is built!

So I hereby apologize to GW for badmouthing the new Stormies. They rock as an insertion unit. Don't go crazy and buy too many or use them as line troops. But, much like Marbo, they are an excellent knife that you can place wherever you need one. Hell, if I had dropped the melta from the squad (Because they have AP3 lasguns and kraks as standard now.), I would have paid just ONE extra point for them in comparison.

8) Sheila the Callidus Assassin's single most important asset these last two games has been her ability to automatically stun/shake tanks with her neural shredder.

9) Sheila can jump out of close combat at the beginning of the phase. Sly Marbo can jump out of close combat at the end of the phase. Guess who ends up chasing who around the board? It reminded me of Brock Samson and Molitov Cocktease from the Venture Brothers series on Adult Swim. It finally ended when Sheila took a lascannon to the face from my command squad. :)


  1. Simply fantastic comments - thank you!

    I've been drawing similar conclusions about my stormies too...and I'm pleased to note I have an entire platoon's worth of the old ones in berets!

    - D

  2. Nice comments. For now I have to disagree on the counter-charge command squad (at least ones in a chimera anyway), as 4 flamers is way too awesome to give up.

    And I can see your point on sponsons for the Demolisher, but what about the tanks with big long range guns? Lumbering Behemoth makes ordnance turreted tanks happy when they have 3 HB.

  3. Ha! I have an old unit of the beret stormies too. A friend of mine gave them to me years ago. I hate the sculpts, but their backpacks are great for converting up Vox Casters. :)

  4. Honestly, if you want counter-charge, take Rough Riders or deep striking stormies. Command squads with flamers may help against hordes. But vs. Meq (75% of all tourney players) they'll just spend most of the game waiting for that one chance to strike (maybe). Whereas they could be shooting tanks, transports, and assassins (Ha!) at a distance for the entire game. Making the enemy walk into your pie plates instead of driving through them.

    As for tanks with long range guns, you'll get one, maybe 2 turns of shooting with those sponsons before you're either a)dead, or b)moving anyway to avoid enemy auto-hits with eviscerators and power klaws. Are the points you pay worth that?

    And, you have to consider the opportunity cost of making a pillbox out of a model who's single best asset is it's mobility. A moving tank can provide cover, tank shock troops, and push your line forward in an offensive role. Rather than a defensive one.

  5. I think that against the new IG, Shelia's been worth her weight in harassment.

    I need more anti-tank in the WH list. I always knew I was fine to go against a list with a few tanks, but not 2-3 heavy tanks plus several medium and light ones as well.

    I'm still thinking I might see how annoying a mostly sit-n-shoot IG line list might be.

    I'm still thinking of griffon and 2 colossus squadrons sound good, maybe even a Griffon and 2 manticore suqadron as well. about half the list would be artillery, then the other half Infantry and goodies.

  6. What about some Immolators for your Witch hunters? Rhinos with Multi-Meltas sound like fun. :)

  7. actually, I think getting 2 platoons and then sentinels or a lascannon Russ sounds more effective than a 90pt transport that can only move 6" and fire it's multi-melta.

    if an immolator were FAST though...

  8. I'm thinking for command squads doing 1 of 2 things, either cheap as chips, with a mortar, behind any cover you can find.
    If you're going to kit them out, prob. a autocannon and GL's
    I still think keep 'em cheap. they're kinda a target anyhow.

    I'm starting to agree with you on taking sponsons off russes, unless I was gonna do a executioner (plasma), or exterminator(Hbolter), I think leave em off.

    I've got to admit, I knew I was running a light armored force straight into a perfect storm of fire to kill them. the Exterminator was perfectly suited for this battle. I'm starting to wonder how much the tailored tanks are going to matter in battles. Kind of like with Eldar picking the right Aspect warriors to go to battle with.

    I think the new Stormies will have a role to play in the new IG. when used right, they CAN be really impressive at what they do. again, it's picking the right tool for the right job. Picking their special mission IS SWEET.

  9. On the Immolator, you'd have to pop your =I=
    (auto-glance, not cover granting) smoke and move 12" on the first turn. But after that initial movement, you'd have a field day in the middle of the table with the Multi-Melta.

    Obviously, you'd have to take more than one to get through your opponent's (my) AT fire. But you could maybe shield 2-3 Immolators behind 2-3 Rhinos for 3+ cover saves on the advance. Plus whatever you can fire out of a Rhino on the move.

    On the idea of taking 2 platoons with the Sisters list... eh. I could see taking one, giving them lascannons, and using them much like I'm using my veteran gun line. But taking 2 platoons at 260 pts minimum just to buy a 165 point Russ for AT duty is just a massive waste of points. Plus, even if you spend another 100 pts on lascannons for the infantry, it'll transform your current fast attack, in-your-face WH force into a static gun line. And that in-your-face quality is currently your strongest asset. You won the last game and could have lucked out and won this one due solely to that quality of your current list.

    The "Armored Fist" wording in the WH codex is really unfortunate. What about making a minimum Guard force with veterans and/or penal troopers with attached Witch Hunter Allies?

  10. This was an IG/WH list I found on BOLS. I've modified the IG parts of it more to my liking, I don't know if the WH parts of it are legal or not.

    Canoness - 116
    Jump pack
    Blessed weapon
    Inferno pistol
    Frag grenades
    Melta bombs

    Commissar Lord w/Power Fist - 85

    Veterens - 155
    3x Melta

    Veterens - 155
    3x Melta

    Sly Marbo - 65

    Vendetta gunship - 130
    12x battle sisters - 164
    Flamer, H Flamer
    Sister Superior

    Vendetta gunship - 130
    12x battle sisters - 164
    Flamer, H Flamer
    Sister Superior

    Leman Russ - 165

    Leman Russ - 165

    Total 1494

  11. Replace Marbo and the Commissar Lord's PF with 5 Stormies and it comes to 1499.

  12. I'll probably end up doing an IG list with Allied WH.

    I had liked that with WH/inducted IG, I could field a lot of tanks, and use a LRBT as my 'firemagnet', and let the Exorcists do what they pleased in tandem. Most people were afraid of the Big guy.

    The Armored Fists were there to enable that strategy.

    I'm taking a view of the IG units being in the place of the Inq. Lord Dakka Squad. it's the sit and spit element.

  13. one idea that seems to be hard for me to get out of my head is artillery combined with Vets and Sisters to make a hornets nest.

    so it would look like:
    Commisar lord w/Power Fist 85

    2x veterans 240pts
    lascannon, 2 plasma 120

    2x sisters of battle 410pts
    Hflamer/flamer in rhino w/smoke, ex armor

    Inquisitor Lord 222
    psycannon, psychic hood, Dakkka squad.

    Sly Marlboro 65

    Shelia 120

    Artillery Battery 355
    Griffon, 2xcolossus mortars

  14. Should I bring the Bassie tomorrow for you to proxy with?

  15. nah. I've probably just got stars in my eyes about how good colossus mortars and medusa seige guns really are.

    when I try it, I'll probably use 2 chimera and my bassie as proxy.

    I go back and forth between the indirect fire and direct fire gun. with mixed in WH, I probably need the extra tank killing power of the medusa, over the kill marines in cover power of the colossus.


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