Saturday, April 30, 2011

Musings on a 1750 ork list

by Uberdark
                                                               

So I have been playing around with a few new builds of late. Heck whatever, its still orks, and still a fast playing army, but at 1500 I feel pretty happy with my build as long as I don't play Spag. lol. What I have is a decently "balanced" take on all comers list at 1750 for the upcoming tournament. The last time I made a 1500 list and posted here, all of you helped me immensely to make that list the best I could get. So here is the new list.


I still have the usual boys in trukks, and battlewagons. I have changed it up with some nobs in a battlewagon instead, and after playing Spag, yeah I went with stikkbombs all around. I REALLY need a higher initiative moving through cover, and since orks have AMAZING INTIATIVE, yeah I went with stikkbombs. Thats sarcasm kiddies. lol.

You might also notice the addition of warbuggies, and while many people don't play them I just love the threat radius of these guys. I could also take out a few other things and turn them into skorchas easily enough, which IS a distinct possibility. So take a look and let ol' Uber know what you think.  Rock on all!!

"Balanced" 1750 list:
HQ:
 Warboss
(Stikkbombs; Attack Squig; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Warbike; Slugga; Dakkagun; Power Klaw) (155 pts)

 Big Mek
(Mek's Tools; Kustom Force Field; Choppa) (85 pts)

Elite:
 Nob Bikers (4 , 280 pts)
   Painboy
(Dok's Tools; Cybork Body; Warbike; 'Urty Syringe; Dakkagun ) [80] 
   Nobz
(Warbike; Cybork Body; Slugga; Dakkagun; Big Choppa) [55]      
   Nobz (
Warbike; Cybork Body; Waaagh! Banner; Slugga; Dakkagun; Big Choppa) [70]      
   Nobz (
Warbike; Cybork Body; Slugga; Dakkagun; Power Klaw )[75] 

 Lootas (9 , 135 pts)

    
Troops:
 Nobz (10 , 505 pts)
   Painboy
(Dok's Tools; Stikkbombs; 'Urty Syringe; 'Eavy Armour ) [56]    
   Nobz
('Eavy Armour; Stikkbombs; Slugga; Power Klaw ) [51]
   Nobz
('Eavy Armour; Stikkbombs; Ammo Runt;  Slugga; Power Klaw) [54]
   Nobz
('Eavy Armour; Stikkbombs; Slugga; Big Choppa) [31]      
   Nobz
('Eavy Armour; Stikkbombs; Waaagh! Banner; Slugga; Big Choppa ) [46]     
   Nobz
('Eavy Armour; Stikkbombs; Choppa; Kombi-Shoota/Skorcha) [31]     
   Nobz
('Eavy Armour; Stikkbombs; Ammo Runt; Choppa; Kombi-Shoota/Skorcha) [34]      
   Nobz
('Eavy Armour; Stikkbombs; Choppa; Kombi-Shoota/Rokkit ) [31]
   Nobz (
'Eavy Armour; Stikkbombs; Bosspole; Slugga; Power Klaw ) [56]
  Battlewagon (
Deff Rolla; Big Shoota (x1)) [115]
    
 Boyz (
Stikkbombs; Choppa & Slugga; Big Shoota (x1)) (13 , 184 pts)   
  Boyz Nob (
'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Stikkbombs; Slugga; Power Klaw) [52] 
   Trukk (Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota) [50]
    
 Boyz (
Stikkbombs; Choppa & Slugga; Big Shoota (x1)) (17 , 169 pts)   
  Boyz Nob (
'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Stikkbombs; Slugga; Power Klaw) [52]
  
Fast Attack:
 Warbuggies (3 , 105 pts)
   3x Warbuggy:
Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha

Heavy Support:
 Battlewagon (130 pts)
  'Ard Case; Deff Rolla; Big Shoota (x1)

Total Cost: 1748

22 comments:

  1. Ard Case on the last Battlewagon?
    wouldn't you rather retain the abilities to shoot/assault from an open topped vehicle?

    ReplyDelete
  2. stikkbombs don't really get you much, especially since it doesn't help the klaws at all. there are very few cases where the stikkbombs would have any beneficial effect.

    the low unit count bothers me too. sure it helps in kill point games, but there are so few targets for people to focus on, they can cripple a couple of units early on. i just worry that you won't be able to effectively breach into a couple of the local builds and still do enough damage.

    i am glad to see that you bought the best ork anti-vehicle gear there is : the boarding plank.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Uber - why the 'uge Nob squad? Is it for wound allocation? I play orks (white ones), and could never drop 500+ pts on 1 squad. Just curious on your thoughts.

    ReplyDelete
  4. @ Exitus

    I asked Uber that too. He said it's for WYSIWYG. He's got a battlewagon modeled with closed top, and it's really difficult to cut off the top to make it open topped.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I like the list. I absolutely think he should have stickbombs on the nobs. One of the biggest reasons orks die is assaulting thru cover. I am not sure about all the units, but the nobs absolutely. Nobs assault at initiative 4 and that means going at the same time as marines. The 16 poinst or so is worth it.

    I kind of like the warbuggies you added.

    What about the mob on foot?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Give ammo runt to the nob with shotta/rokkit - the one with shotta/skorcha doesn't need a reroll to hit :)

    I don't get the numbers - there's 9 nobz, not 10, also 12 boyz not 13 - is it some AB quirk?.
    Oh, I get it - the program counts the transport as an additional model...

    You are aware that among biker nobz only warboss has stikkbombz...

    I prefer cybork body on nobz instead of 'eavy armor - 5++ instead of 4+ for the same price - no brainer :)

    I'd drop 'eavy armour from boyz' nob - if he's getting hit, your boyz are dead anyways.

    The boarding plank on the truck is unlikely to be of use :)

    Installing stikkbomb chukkas on the vehicles you can save some points (their cargo count as having stikkbombs at the turn they unloaded from them)

    Adding one lootas lets you split their unit into two which is tactically better.

    Check out this tweaked version:

    HQ:
    155 Warboss (warbike, cybork body, PK, attack squig, bosspole)
    95 Big Mek (KFF, cybork body)

    ELITES:
    284 4 Nob Bikers (stikkbombs, Painboy, 4 cybork body, 2 big choppa, PK, waaagh! banner)
    75 5 Lootas
    75 5 Lootas

    TROOPS:
    506 9 Nobz (Painboy, 9 cybork body, 3 PK, 2 big choppa, 2 ammo runt, Waaagh! Banner, 2 shoota/skorcha, shoota/rokkit, bosspole)
    + Battlewagon (red paint job, deff rolla; big shoota, stikkbomb chukka)

    172 12 slugga Boyz (big shoota, Nob w/ bosspole, PK)
    + Trukk (red paint job; reinforced ram; big shoota, stikkbomb chukka)

    164 19 shoota Boyz (rokkit launcha, Nob w/ Bosspole, Power Klaw)

    FAST ATTACK:
    105 3 Warbuggies (3 TL Rokkit Launcha)

    HEAVY SUPPORT:
    120 Battlewagon (Deff Rolla; Big Shoota, stikkbomb chukka)

    1751 TOTAL

    Big Mek rides in big wagon with 19 shoota boyz. Without 'ard case they can shoot all their dakka from the wagon which is made of win. I gave them a rokkit for additional AT

    ReplyDelete
  7. lehcyfer: first the 10 nob thing was a mistake. :) but the ammo runt thing is only for wound allocation. i rarely use it for anything else. the two five man loota squads are going to be making a morale check after the death of one model. at 9 they need to lose three i believe. i do not know what you mean by cybork giving me a 5++? if given a pain boy they get fnp, so for most things, they get a 4++. if one dies thats fine.

    the stikkbomb chukka is a good idea. but right now i think a lot of things are gonna get blown up A LOT. the boarding planks are a must in my opinion. most people dont think they get used, but much to spag's and other players chagrin i have used those to deadly efficiency. I understand the use of rokkits on most things, but im still not sold on the effectiveness of ork rokkits.

    jrock: the huge nob squad is taking the place of another nob biker squad with warboss. i feel this squad when used effectively can last a bit longer.

    steve: i understand the feeling on ork stikkbombs. but man even hitting at 3 or 4 in int. order is better than everyone hitting at 1.

    spag: i kept thinking on the use of the blob of orks, and i am not all the way sold on it. i feel with the high amount of manueverability my list uses, the slow aspect, even for snagging objectives seems like it might not work as well, than when i have 3 warbuggies that are moving 18" or shooting and harrassing other units.

    guys all around: thanks for the comments. i will look at them and keep reworking this list. I think its almost there.

    ReplyDelete
  8. "but man even hitting at 3 or 4 in int. order is better than everyone hitting at 1."

    nope. striking at i3 only matters against guard, other orks, necrons, etc - in which case it isn't a big deal if you tie on initiative or not as you'll be winning the combat anyway with minimal losses.

    but you're worried about having a nob or two strike at i4 with those marines you just charged. in that case, the stikks are only useful on the nobz as the boyz will never match the marine initiative, so it isn't worth even trying. and most of your nobz will be killing by way of a klaw, and those charged marines aren't going to have too many attacks back at you to do much damage. and since those nobz have 2 wounds each, going second really doesn't matter much.

    and i think the buggies should be split into 3 units of 1 each. you can engage more targets and block more advance lanes, and it will take more effort to take out all three than if they were together. kill point doctrine says this is a no-no, but i think you should consider it.

    ReplyDelete
  9. and thats why i like you steve. very good points. the buggies are split. dont know about the stikkbombs but i get your point. wheres scottydont? i know youve run orks before. any ideas?

    ReplyDelete
  10. I concur. As a general rule, stickbombs on boys gain nothing. Anything with initiative low enough to matter is going to get destroyed, unless you happen to be charging into a unit of TH/SS termies with them. On nobs it is worth considering, and a warboss with a big choppa probably deserves them. I further concur with previous statements suggesting cybork over heavy armor for the squad as a whole. You are *nearly* as functional against AP5, and better against everything else.

    Also: There appear to be two waaaaagh banners in your list. This is a problem. Probably keep the one in the foot nobs, since they need more help being different. And I would mix them up with armor selection more than presence of ammo runts. It's only two more points apiece, and has a greater potential to be useful.

    ReplyDelete
  11. "i do not know what you mean by cybork giving me a 5++? if given a pain boy they get fnp, so for most things, they get a 4++. if one dies thats fine."

    4++ only against weapons that doesn't instakill or are AP1, AP2, power weapons or any that allow no armour save. I tended to loose lot of my nobz to instakill so I use cybork bodies now :)

    "five man loota squads are going to be making a morale check after the death of one model"

    One model out of five is 20% and you need 25% to take morale check so you need to kill 2 of them. Lets see comparison when everything failed:
    Five lootas: Two were killed, three fled.
    Nine lootas: three were killed, 6 fled.
    Ten lootas in two squads of 5: Two times two were killed, two morale checks were taken, 6 fled.
    I think the choice is obvious :)

    ReplyDelete
  12. Alright my 2 yen. Switch Bw's so that big boyz unit is in open topped version, also (if you have them) they would love to carry shootas instead of pistol and ccw. I believe the KFF Mek goes with them. And yes I know that nobz unit cannot assault out of the closed top BW.

    AS far as the stickybombz I agree 100% with Steve. They really only benefit the nobz, but in no way a necessity. With points saved on stickybombz and the reduction of 1 nob that is 51pts you could add another trukk mob. Give me a couple hours and I'll post a list that is very similar.

    ReplyDelete
  13. lehcyfer: my maths were wrong. sorry. but i still dont like the idea of breaking them up into smaller squads. im already thinking about removing the warbuggies and making them single units. i am a fan of hating MSU builds. it never seems to work for me. as for stikkbombs. i would agree that all the boys are losing them, but the nobs will keep them.

    Scotty: i thought that the shoota boys would be a better feel for the boys in the open topped one. but aaron didnt think it would have been worth it. im second guessing some of my own previous held assumptions. for example, switching all cc boys for shoota boys and such. idk, im getting to the point where after this tourney, im gonna HAVE to buy a new army. and i know rionnay is gonna crow. but there is only so far i can take this army. i really enjoy playing in a tourney where someone goes, "wait a sec, i just got beat by orks? but they're not competitive?" its just getting annoying to keep tweaking builds every few weeks to counter "codex creep". anyhow. thanks again guys.

    ReplyDelete
  14. As for 20 shoota boyz in BW - as I've said they're so good that if in new codex boyz could get BW as a transport option I'd bring 6 to every single game - it would cost 1530pts without deffrollas, but worth every point.

    As for Lootas - you need to shoot two separate targets and inflict at least two casualties in each to make them check morale. Also you have to roll twice for number of shoots from one weapon which makes it more average and avoid all lootas shooting 1 shot per weapon. Also you can shoot one target, then if it's not enough repeat it or choose another one - that's greater flexibility. Loosing 5 lootas to genestelaers or other infiltrators suck, but not as much as loosing nine. Five lootas fits easily into ruins etc. making it easier to get cover save for them.

    I could go on and on :)

    Is wysiwyg so observed on the tournament? Perhaps you can go away with - "This is 20 shoota boyz in open topped BW"? I mean they _are_ boyz in BW - all right? :)

    ReplyDelete
  15. lehcyfer: i would LOVE to be able to do that. but WYSIWYG is just that. and if youve seen my double decker battlewagon. yeaaaaaaaah......aint gonna happen. lol.

    sandwyrm once said, well you couuuld cut it up and remodel it. tongue in cheek firmly held. lol.

    lehcyfer again ;): i understand the multiple shots from small units, like the lootas, but at this point if i split them up along with the warbuggies and change anything else, like what scotty dont is thinking, im adding, 5 more units. thats a LOT for a 1750 list.

    on a side note: i have bought a new bw. i just need to get it from spag and assemble it. man i keep talking about getting out of orks but keep moving back to them. DAMN YOU SEXY ORKS!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  16. I think that if you're going to take Lootas at all, it needs to be in 2 squads of 10+. Both to even out the luck and to cover more of the table.

    If you're going to split the buggies, then I don't think that you need more than 2.

    If you need to proxy something (open-topped BW, more lootas, whatever) nobody is going to complain in a casual practice game. Just make sure that we have some easy way of telling what's what. :)

    ReplyDelete
  17. Oh in casual yes. no worries there. i dont think anyones a real jerk in our friend games, but in tourney it would be different.

    going to 2 buggies would open up another 40 points. i get the two lootas at 10 each. but thats a lot to get ready in two weeks. i could conceivably do a total of 16 lootas and split them into groups of 8? but i also have the 10 nobs and 20 shootas to paint as well. uggh....im a glutton for punishment. lol

    ReplyDelete
  18. Ok Uber here it is. Some changes that I think would help.

    85 HQ- Big Mek- KFF
    140 HQ- Warboss- Warbike,Cybork Body,PK,Bosspole
    260 Elite- 4 Nobz- Bikes,Painboy,Cybork Bodies,PK,1 Big Choopa
    75 Elite- 5 Lootas
    75 Elite- 5 Lootas
    325 Troop- 8 Nobz- Painboy,Cybork Bodies,Waaagh Banner,1 PK,1 PK&Kombi-Skorcha,1 slugga&Big Choppa,1 bosspole&slugga&Big Choppa,1 BigChoppa&KombiSkorcha
    130 Battle Wagon-'Ard Case,Big Shoota,Deff Rolla
    112 Troop- 12 Boyz- Nob,Bosspole,PK
    40 Trukk- Boardin Plank
    112 Troop- 12 Boyz- Nob, Bosspole,PK
    40 Trukk- Boardin Plank
    136 Troop- 16 Boyz-Nob, Bosspole,PK, shootas
    115 Heavy- Battlewagon- Big Shoota, Deff Rolla
    35 Fast- Warbuggy- Twin-Rokkit Launcha
    35 Fast- Warbuggy- Twin-Rokkit Launcha
    35 Fast- Warbuggy- Twin-Rokkit Launcha
    1750

    So what you have is a list very similar to the posted version. 16 Boyz mob and Big Mek go in the open-topped wagon. I added another trukk mob by removing a few unnecessary upgrades and a nob. Seperated the buggies and split the lootas, which if you want them together I'd say play 1 unit of 9 and add the attack squig back to the warboss.

    This is probably what I'd play based off of your original list. Hope this helps.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Meh. Throw in some Tankbustas with bomb squigs...people really under-rate them (A boss pole for them, and the nob's powerklaw is dirt cheap). Bomb squigs let you act like longfangs so you can target multiple targets (like having BS 5)and you can insta kill those Thudnerwolves with a few S10 tank hammers...

    ReplyDelete
  20. Really? You think that some tankbustas will live long enough to even get attacks against TWC? I wanna play in your gaming circles!

    ReplyDelete
  21. scotty: kinda my thoughts too on the tankbustas. they rock in games of apoc. but dont work so well in other games. i like most of your list building and will keep most of it. i figured out last night how to make my bw "open topped" with little change.

    ill be posting up the final list in a few days. thanks again to everyone. you all rock!!!

    next up: uber's razorspam army.

    ReplyDelete
  22. tried out the list scottydont. worked very well. i felt like a drop pod army moving up with those warbuggies being big threats on turn 1. and keeping them separate meant my opponent kept wasting turns on them. the kff really needs to stay. i have tried without it, and i just think its 100% worth it.

    ReplyDelete

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