tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post4645610852302906515..comments2024-02-16T18:32:38.635-05:00Comments on The Back 40K: Am I..."Anti Chaos Daemons"?Farmpunkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09622091234212120598noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-68037018919279814072010-11-16T05:39:22.349-05:002010-11-16T05:39:22.349-05:00Daemons are a great army. Plenty of hard hitting...Daemons are a great army. Plenty of hard hitting power in the army.<br /><br />Inexperience in the army is what most people tend to see that makes them think the army is not as solid as it really is.<br /><br />An experienced player doesn't need any of the fatecrusher elements to make a competitive army, though these are the easiest elements of the book to use.<br /><br />I personally though have never had an issue with the army, I've had a couple very rough games but never have I been walked over by them. Not to brag but I've also never lost to them.<br /><br />Of their downsides, certain builds do suffer much the same as orks do against vehicles but they have more solutions for vehicles than orks do. Their deep strikeing ability does make up alot for their lack of speed but as mentioned there are certain units that are faster than expected. Flamers are jump infantry, same for screamers. they have several beast units that can charge 12" as well.<br /><br />Just for those who still think them a weak army. Beware, they are a force to be reckoned with. <br /><br />So says Da Archfiend of DezdemonArchfiend of Dezdemonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570996254347477584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-73517804217460640242010-11-15T16:51:52.338-05:002010-11-15T16:51:52.338-05:00@Zheilt,
With Fatecrusher even getting flipped do...@Zheilt,<br /><br />With Fatecrusher even getting flipped doesn't often matter. Yes it hurts, but the list still has the ability to be very hard to deal with.<br /><br />The non preferred side is often 4 bloodcrushers, plague bearers, and a fast attack choice, along with horrors. I do agree flipping a Daemon player can hurt them, but it is not crippling. <br /><br />Sandwyrm has a great point. Bloodcrushers cost $53 per 3. To have 12 bloodcrushers that is $212 and that is just a part of the army. <br /><br />I get the same thing with my Thunderwolf Calvary. They are very expensive to buy. That is why I have converted 9 of the 10 I have. And they really do look like Thunderwolves, not chaos jugs or bears, or whatever. <br /><br />All great comments!Spaguatyrinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459803772469387289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-56334974373996230622010-11-15T10:39:26.519-05:002010-11-15T10:39:26.519-05:00I think a major problem with the Daemons codex is ...I think a major problem with the Daemons codex is the randomness of it. You can't really rely on it to do what you want every time, so it isn't competitive.<br /><br />Maybe you'll win every game that you get your preferred drop, but you can't guarantee that. Or even if you do get it, you can't guarantee that it will scatter how you want. And then there are reserve rolls. It just isn't reliable. Sure they can be quite powerful, but sometimes you just won't win a game because of bad reserve rolls.<br /><br />Do you want a list that will win ever time 50% of the time? Or a list that can win 80% of the time regardless?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-7666560863751234652010-11-15T07:50:53.555-05:002010-11-15T07:50:53.555-05:00"Chaos Daemons shouldn't mix thier Gods: ..."Chaos Daemons shouldn't mix thier Gods: Again who cares if it helps them win."<br /><br />This strikes me as unfairly bitter. <br /><br />I run mono-God (Khorne) and, frankly, the codex is <i>meant</i> to be run with multi-God lists. Mixing gods isn't an expression of a WAAC mentality: it's using the tools in the book. <br /><br />Running mono-God is, quite literally, like running nothing but Assault Marines. Sure, you can do it, and it can be fun, but it's such a far cry from competitive it can be extremely unfun. At this point, I don't even think I should put my models down against an IG or DE player: we know who's winning before the first die roll.Rushputinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07867389429325778387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-45777860570522055952010-11-14T22:33:57.440-05:002010-11-14T22:33:57.440-05:00I think that non-Fatecrusher Daemons have real pro...I think that non-Fatecrusher Daemons have real problems with Mech in the same way that Orks do. There are solutions but, like Orks, they require some luck to pull off.<br /><br />Fatecrusher is mean though. I also think the $$$ expense of the army is something of an advantage. In that they're rare enough that most people haven't ever encountered Daemons before. So they don't have the experience required to beat them when they pop up at a tourney.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-34086149107181206752010-11-14T17:49:54.354-05:002010-11-14T17:49:54.354-05:00lalalalalalalalalalaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-26920449941257123302010-11-14T14:27:10.008-05:002010-11-14T14:27:10.008-05:00I will throw in another wrench into the mix.
Yes ...I will throw in another wrench into the mix.<br /><br />Yes Foodie, there needs to be a 6" bubble, but a Daemon player has a lot more speed than people think. If he adds:<br /><br />Fiends and Seekers into their list. Fiends and Seekers have a 12" charge ability with 5 and 6 attacks each model on the charge and Rending. That is speed!<br /><br />Screamers, Daemon Princes, & Bloodthirsters. All of these creatures fly and can hop transports to wipe out troops and vehicles.<br /><br />A Lord of Change to go with Fateweaver. This is one of the most effective and disgusting combo's in the game of 40K. <br /><br />So.. yes they need a 6" bubble.... for 1 or 2 turns only. By then it will be over. <br /><br />@Farmpunk I vowed after the doubles tournament to always bring something for daemons, but I feel I might loose that ability with the new codex coming out with my Space Wolves or Guard. Fortunately Space Wolves have good anti Daemon abilities with Jaws of the World Wolf, Tempests Wrath, Murderous Hurricane, and Runic weapons.<br /><br />All of this being said, who can explain if the Daemon Codex is just a gimmick army how they have such a high winning percentage in tournaments.........<br /><br />My theory is that they are overpowered than people will admit.Spaguatyrinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459803772469387289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-24847246745730211932010-11-14T13:44:32.841-05:002010-11-14T13:44:32.841-05:00The 4-5 times I've faced Fatecrusher builds, I...The 4-5 times I've faced Fatecrusher builds, I've circled my Inquisitorial wagons up, and when Fateweaver shows his face, pelted him with everything I've got. I usually end up wishing I'd put Psycannon bolts on my WH inquisitor, but I take him down.<br />but that's usually 32+ bolter shots, a half dozen meltas, and a few Hflamers, plus Multilasers.<br /><br />I'm actually one of the few armies that can pump out a whole lot of shots, and stay in my ring of cans.<br /><br />It's one of the most annoying lists for me to play against though. Throw in some screamers and flamers of tzneetch, and some changelings, and I'll grumble while I work.<br /><br />I find it annoying enough that a single psycannon toting elite inquisitor's almost found his way into my, and Sandwyrm's lists for the Team tourney. (which actually probably would have helped us in general anyway)Farmpunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622091234212120598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-1277861956574227772010-11-14T10:04:33.023-05:002010-11-14T10:04:33.023-05:00Like you said in the article, mech is your best fr...Like you said in the article, mech is your best friend against this list. <br /><br />I split my force into two parts and try to lure part of the army away from Fateweaver while I use the "back up and shoot" method.<br /><br />My last game against this army used Spearhead deployment, and the Daemon player had to chase me along the long board edge, taking shots from Vindicators, a Land Raider Crusader, and shooty Terminators all the way.Wienashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16756262005166254202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-68783513931013679482010-11-14T09:49:31.618-05:002010-11-14T09:49:31.618-05:00Most informative, spot on (as a daemon player myse...Most informative, spot on (as a daemon player myself)Pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15033875920115128291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-93560561796343252010-11-14T08:31:46.237-05:002010-11-14T08:31:46.237-05:00Just want to throw out that, at least what I'v...Just want to throw out that, at least what I've seen on the interwebs, the Fatecrusher is the Leafblower of the codex. Deamons as a rule offer a challenging play experience, but you can always pull out this gimmick if you want to go to a hardcore tourney. <br /><br />My answer to it, though, would be probably two things. <br /><br />The first, as you said, is speed. Deamons aren't a fast army. Use this against them. With DE in particular, any mech force not-in-particular, or just good run rolls (which yeah, they can match, but no assaulting) you can keep them on the run and deal with them as you wish.<br /><br />Secondly, and this goes hand in hand - the power that makes this army work has a 6" range. Combined with the lack of speed (Ol' Fatey can fly, but then he's leaving things out of his bubble) it seems that you could manipulate this to your advantage.<br /><br />The build still has the generic Deamon weaknesses - most units being assault-only, giving you a turn to say hello/run after they DS in, and the aforementioned speed of said assault units (with some exceptions, of course).<br /><br />And maybe I'm spoiled with all the fancy new poisoned weapons, but 27 wounds doesn't scare me. That means, in theory, I need to get my warriors (3 units) in range and he's gone. Of course, then my warriors are out in front of a deamon horde, so further tactics are required to prevent a retaliatory slaughter, but that'll happen.<br /><br />I think the biggest downfall to this build is that, if you want to make use of it (ie, be within 6" of Fateweaver), you become predictable. That's a pretty small bubble to pack everything in. Nid players will recognize this, especially if you run Nodes instead of just a Web of synapse. You have groups that can move around and do things, but those groups have to stay together. And we have double the range. It does pigeonhole you a bit.<br /><br />This all said, I don't think I've ever played against a really competent Deamons player. None of this is meant to say that the army is made of fail, but I think like anything else it has its Achilles heel.Anonymous Foodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14362829012549159278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-8624959339846443732010-11-14T01:11:58.107-05:002010-11-14T01:11:58.107-05:00Lol, well tank shocking and psycannons are all gra...Lol, well tank shocking and psycannons are all grand for some armies. ::glare:: others, get rolled when they hit our lines. Sigh, my poor nids.... didn't stand a chance.<br /><br />But the new GK book should help stall the Deamonic tide.<br /><br />Though my Tyranids will be no less better off.TheGraveMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202256201375802641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-42256963156481110222010-11-14T01:03:59.550-05:002010-11-14T01:03:59.550-05:00I played 2 games against Dodger3's Daemons a f...I played 2 games against Dodger3's Daemons a few weeks back and lost them both. Though I did do much better in the second game as I figured a few things out.<br /><br />The secret seems to be to tank-shock the hell out of Fateweaver. He's only S5, so Death-Or-Glory is a bad bet against a Rhino and suicide against a Chimera. Which means you can push him (and his 6" re-roll bubble) away from the units he wants to protect with one or two shocks. Then you can kill that unit of Bloodcrushers with the icon and spoil his day.<br /><br />You could also bring along an Elite Inquisitor with a Psycannon and Sanctuary for just 65 points for some "Nayh nayh, can't touch me but I can kill you!" fun.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.com