tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post2752761836803809116..comments2024-02-16T18:32:38.635-05:00Comments on The Back 40K: Final mission packet for the Indy OpenFarmpunkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09622091234212120598noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-17317866796502209392013-02-09T16:57:09.448-05:002013-02-09T16:57:09.448-05:00Yes, embarked units count. It's essentially e...Yes, embarked units count. It's essentially everything that meets the positioning requirements, isn't a Flyer, and isn't currently holding a Crusade objective.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-91858835097657575382013-02-09T08:31:44.650-05:002013-02-09T08:31:44.650-05:00Hover type flyers are still flyers a b d cannot sc...Hover type flyers are still flyers a b d cannot score in any mission.Spaguatyrinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459803772469387289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-12539034539369493322013-02-08T21:07:41.492-05:002013-02-08T21:07:41.492-05:00Alright sounds good as long as there is some prece...Alright sounds good as long as there is some precedence for it. Last thing here. Do models embarked on transports still count towards table quarters or do they have to disembark to count for quarters?Tomb Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966193918427844485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-6915699211847762282013-02-08T01:07:15.439-05:002013-02-08T01:07:15.439-05:00While the final-final packet should go up sometime...While the final-final packet should go up sometime tomorrow or Saturday, I'll go ahead and post the current implementation of the objective/table quarter mechanic (note that Unit Points is our new terminology for 5th's Victory Points for clarity) since it's drawing questions:<br /><br />"While units in control of a Crusade objective do not contribute Unit Points toward their Table Quarter, there is no requirement to physically move a scoring unit away from an objective for them to do so; the intention is simply that they cannot do both. As such, players may choose to forfeit Crusade objectives in order to instead count the controlling unit's points toward Table Quarters at the end of the game. The player in control of fewer Crusade objectives will make this declaration first. In the event of a tie on Crusade, neither player is allowed to forfeit objectives."<br /><br />This version of the rule is the simplest and least tactically disruptive way to handle a rather complex intertwining of the missions, and is almost certainly the one we'll be using at the tournament.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-876441187021678172013-02-07T22:37:16.051-05:002013-02-07T22:37:16.051-05:00The player holding fewer Crusade objectives will b...The player holding fewer Crusade objectives will be making the decision first. Presumably they'll decide to forfeit all their objectives, but this will obviously allow their opponent to do the same for all but one of theirs, which may not actually work out in their favor. In the event of a draw on Crusade, obviously neither player will be forfeiting objectives.<br /><br />At any rate, I'd be shocked if a situation that makes it relevant even occurs over the course of the entire day. You're basically talking about a single scoring unit's point value being enough to sway the outcome of a Table Quarter--in which they are currently holding an uncontested objective--while the overall Table Quarters score is otherwise tied in the other three Quarters, and with the difference of that scoring unit's Quarter changing the overall into a win on Table Quarters for the player that lost Crusade.<br /><br />All other outcomes are meaningless, as changing the Table Quarters outcome to a tie (or a win for the player that won Crusade)--knowing that one player already won Crusade--is irrelevant given the nature of a straight W/L system.<br /><br />It's worth noting the further unlikelihood of the scoring situation that would have to occur to make even THAT unlikely scenario possible in the first place--a tie on the other three Quarters essentially means there is an abandoned quarter with noone holding it in order for the 1-1 tie to occur and allowing the fourth Quarter to be relevant. Either that, or the "scoring unit's points deciding the Quarter whilst simultaneously holding an objective" scenario would have to occur in TWO Quarters simultaneously.<br /><br />Basically, the chances of all that occuring are drastically lower than the chances of a player being negatively impacted due to his scoring unit being disallowed from contributing to Quarters because they were too close to an objective. Losing because you held an objective is a far more ludicrous and negative outcome, and it's one we're avoiding with this system. There's virtually no limit to the amount of shenanigans that could be pulled (particularly by the player with the final turn) if allowing your opponent to score an objective can work out in your favor; not to mention the inherent tactical downside of the player with first turn having to commit to objectives, and then the player with second turn being able to just walk away from them if he knows he's losing.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-43740143970565941132013-02-07T19:39:21.645-05:002013-02-07T19:39:21.645-05:00This could cause issues though,
"The short ve...This could cause issues though,<br />"The short version is that you're allowed to choose to declare that a unit ISN'T holding an objective; we're not looking to penalize people for having scoring units, just to prevent any given unit from contributing to both simultaneously, which we believe makes for a better mission."<br /><br />If I am winning objectives 3-2 and my opponent decides not to claim his two to get the table quarters then what is stopping me from not claiming 2 of mine to maximize table quarter control. This is just a situation I could see arising where someone tries to shift gears to get one of the two primary objectives after the game where his opponent would of had both originally. Might establish a precedence for declaring this if you all are going to allow people to declare what they are doing post game. <br /><br />My opponent could state he was for table quarters but then switch to objectives after I did the same. Its just too much room for TFG to really ruin someones day. Tomb Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966193918427844485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-79460712134856796982013-02-07T18:23:44.214-05:002013-02-07T18:23:44.214-05:00But for realz what about flyers withthe hover type...But for realz what about flyers withthe hover typeronnochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04846138337588291636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-83211631107381725382013-02-07T11:22:42.323-05:002013-02-07T11:22:42.323-05:00Correction: Flyers do not count toward Table Quart...Correction: Flyers do not count toward Table Quarters.<br /><br />And a note on the design intent of the Relic/Emperor's Will mission: While the two missions independently may favor draws (which, in itself, is mostly irrelevant as we have no draws) they were paired together to offset strengths.Emperor's Will tends to favor either heavily durable/stationary armies (who tend to hold their deployment zone objective(s) against all comers) and heavily mobile armies (who can harass the enemy deployment zone objective(s) with ease) while Relic tends to favor brute-force center-hold armies.Very few armies are capable of the flexibility necessary to achieve both of those playstyles simultaneously, but that's what we'd like to encourage.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-37160117676265562502013-02-07T08:38:59.452-05:002013-02-07T08:38:59.452-05:00Correction to the above comment. Flying monstrous ...Correction to the above comment. Flying monstrous creatures count towards quarters but flyers do not. Spaguatyrinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459803772469387289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-58311399553064861782013-02-07T02:06:38.809-05:002013-02-07T02:06:38.809-05:00A further note:
The current packet includes an ex...A further note:<br /><br />The current packet includes an explanation of how the holding objective/not contributing towards Table Quarter mechanic works.<br /><br />The short version is that you're allowed to choose to declare that a unit ISN'T holding an objective; we're not looking to penalize people for having scoring units, just to prevent any given unit from contributing to both simultaneously, which we believe makes for a better mission.<br /><br />So if you're winning Crusade 5-0 and would rather have some of those units contributing points toward Table Quarters rather than holding unnecessary objectives, they won't be forced to run away from the objective or anything, you can just declare it at the end of the game.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-46042550390037058422013-02-07T01:59:44.532-05:002013-02-07T01:59:44.532-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-27382135567756592232013-02-07T00:28:30.900-05:002013-02-07T00:28:30.900-05:00I wish the best for IG, Dark eldar, eldar and Tau ...I wish the best for IG, Dark eldar, eldar and Tau players. Flexible or not is gonna be an uphill battle on both of those missions for any of the finesse xenos armies. <br /><br />BTW: do fliers count towards table quarters?Tomb Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966193918427844485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-53441346441057835212013-02-06T22:59:28.102-05:002013-02-06T22:59:28.102-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tomb Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966193918427844485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-12266125727549295092013-02-06T22:50:15.180-05:002013-02-06T22:50:15.180-05:00lol not my choice on that... relic was in 1 of the...lol not my choice on that... relic was in 1 of them. I played against a static gunline ig player. He had no way of ever getting it. Tomb Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966193918427844485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-11436997865818649072013-02-06T22:46:08.690-05:002013-02-06T22:46:08.690-05:00Tomb King:
I've been playtesting the modified...Tomb King:<br /><br />I've been playtesting the modified Emperor's Will with the Relic, and I can assure you that it doesn't favor a draw. Since you get to place the objectives in your opponent's zone, you naturally set them as close as possible to you. Since the Relic greatly encourages movement towards the middle of the battlefield, it is only a short jog over to at least one objective. If anything, this mission ensemble encourages a clash of powers. Unless you army is highly maneuverable (aka demons or transport flyers), you are forced to push out. And that, within the grand scheme of all 7 missions, necessitates flexibility. At the Indy Open you will not be able to sit back all the time. Some missions favor deathstars, some campers, some MSU, some kill point denial lists, some fast movers, etc. In a nutshell, the army that is going to win is most likely the one that is extremely flexible. And that's good. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07772678032258690027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-83672270847952229272013-02-06T21:15:12.943-05:002013-02-06T21:15:12.943-05:00Didnt your tourney have it in 3 of 6 games? LOL. ...Didnt your tourney have it in 3 of 6 games? LOL. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06205922113166820633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-1986343207189284502013-02-06T20:44:27.408-05:002013-02-06T20:44:27.408-05:00Correct, a unit holding an objective does not coun...Correct, a unit holding an objective does not count towards table quarters for mission 1 and 7.<br /><br />And plan accordingly because the relic/emperor's will is both mission 3 and 6.TheGraveMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202256201375802641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-26009549980051668712013-02-06T19:27:29.551-05:002013-02-06T19:27:29.551-05:00Last amendment. Do fliers cant towards table quar...Last amendment. Do fliers cant towards table quarters? Tomb Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966193918427844485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-15326700888858742702013-02-06T18:21:48.941-05:002013-02-06T18:21:48.941-05:00In addition, did I read this correctly? Troops tha...In addition, did I read this correctly? Troops that are holding an objective cant control a table quarter?Tomb Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966193918427844485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-34125029027277992882013-02-06T18:19:52.064-05:002013-02-06T18:19:52.064-05:00I loathe Relic mission and the emperors will or ol...I loathe Relic mission and the emperors will or old school capture and control with a new name. I understand you all modified it but it doesnt fix the likelyhood that both of these missions end in a draw more then any other mission in the book. I honestly dont even play them when practicing for tournaments as I dont expect to see them for those reasons.<br /><br />Mission #6 managed to get both of them for the same mission. I guess if I give up first blood I will be playing to table my opponent. :(Tomb Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966193918427844485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-37191947653318344172013-02-06T08:36:14.817-05:002013-02-06T08:36:14.817-05:00Flyers that are fast attack or heavy support that ...Flyers that are fast attack or heavy support that can eneter hover mode can score in some missions, in the rule book and every tournament that I'm aware of.ronnochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04846138337588291636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-66575653718147127552013-02-06T02:06:53.844-05:002013-02-06T02:06:53.844-05:00Just an FYI, I'm personally going through and ...Just an FYI, I'm personally going through and doing a final-final rewrite of the packet for clarity and will get it out ASAP. Appreciate all the thoughts, Nick, and will clarify the Flyer/wording/scoring issues as I go.<br /><br />For reference to anyone playtesting, there will almost certainly be no major changes to the mechanics of the missions at this point; I'm just doing a pass for clarity and cohesiveness with the rulebook and our terminology.<br /><br />Sorry for all the delays; Aaron had to essentially do the whole packet all by himself (on top of actually organizing the event) as I've been in the middle of a move and a new job.<br /><br />As far as your thoughts on Mission 1/7: We expect to see some interesting games on that one, which is why we've featured it. Don't overlook the fact that the points cost of unit(s) controlling objectives are not counted toward their Table Quarter; this will make things more difficult for the 'sit back and shoot' armies you're most likely thinking of.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-76123856300989577212013-02-03T22:35:21.005-05:002013-02-03T22:35:21.005-05:00Cover is 6th edition a cover save per page 18 is
...Cover is 6th edition a cover save per page 18 is<br /><br />"the target model's body (as defined on page 8) is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least 1 firer, wounds allocated to that model receive a cover save"<br /><br />As the hill is not area terrain the only way you would receive a cover save is if your model or models are obscured 25% by the rocky, steep hills per the BRB. <br /><br />Alot of tournaments run everything as area terrain and the distinction is to clarify the hill terrain pieces.Spaguatyrinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459803772469387289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-91005669232100654122013-02-03T22:27:21.634-05:002013-02-03T22:27:21.634-05:00That's fine if you wish to continue based off ...That's fine if you wish to continue based off of other tournaments, but it is not in the rules that a flyer cannot score. Nor does it say that this excludes them from counting for double KP. On that, I see no reason to then count other fast attack as double KP. This just seems to further the already growing problem with the balance of flyers.<br /><br />I understand mission 3, but I feel it could be worded clearer as to the objectives.TheGraveMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202256201375802641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-38773914650224388972013-02-03T22:22:51.205-05:002013-02-03T22:22:51.205-05:00Well, as I have not seen anything of what terrain ...Well, as I have not seen anything of what terrain the tournament will be using, I do not know how rocky or steep the middle hills are. page 90 is generally for undefined pieces of terrain, where 105 specifically states what hill crests and ridge lines are. Steep and rocky sections of hills are very subjective and I do not know how even each table's hills are, so I do not know how needed such a general ruling is.<br />and I'm still confused as to the 5+ cover, what defines if some rocky outcrop is part of the ridge line or not.TheGraveMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202256201375802641noreply@blogger.com