tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post5725610283936498356..comments2024-02-16T18:32:38.635-05:00Comments on The Back 40K: Feast of Blades Preparation-What list to bring????Farmpunkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09622091234212120598noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-19190604936019688232013-09-17T12:35:30.673-04:002013-09-17T12:35:30.673-04:00While I really really want you to go with CSM and ...While I really really want you to go with CSM and win the whole thing, sadly I don't think that the spiky marines have what it takes to do so. <br /><br />I think that the best advice is to go with what you know and are used to playing with. Yes a lot of people will be taking mirror list of your nava list and the Riptide Rush (swee what I did there?), how many will actually have anything like the time you have put into playing the army? You might consider adjusting your list for the new marines but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water either. <br /><br /><br />Chambershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18075294689773116021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-39657230300162676882013-09-16T07:41:57.595-04:002013-09-16T07:41:57.595-04:00It's 2 bikes a turn times 3 baleflamers. Loos...It's 2 bikes a turn times 3 baleflamers. Loosing 6 bikes a turn--minimum--is not sustainable. And that's not considering your opponent using tank shocks or other tactics to bunch up your bikes before dropping the flamer on them. Your also going to have to bunch up those bikes on your own to make use of the rapid fire range of your bolters and grav.CaulynDarrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14556761303500891267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-43524716196889443122013-09-15T23:27:14.262-04:002013-09-15T23:27:14.262-04:00Thank you all for your suggestions. I am finalizin...Thank you all for your suggestions. I am finalizing my list this week..... I will post it the day before I leave. ;)Spaguatyrinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459803772469387289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-88083020171401403082013-09-15T12:48:18.140-04:002013-09-15T12:48:18.140-04:00I think that Korona sums up my position rather wel...I think that Korona sums up my position rather well. In my experience, games are won with some mix of mobility and durability. Bike armies offer a healthy amount of both. Can they be beaten? Yes, but in the right hands, they can give your opponent fits.Ironweevilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11391135624485083057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-11576735338235500182013-09-14T10:26:44.664-04:002013-09-14T10:26:44.664-04:00I love 3+ saves. I'm used to IG and DE though...I love 3+ saves. I'm used to IG and DE though so I'm not used to having durable troops.<br /><br />It's easy to over-state the threat from the helldrake. Losing 20 bikes per turn? Only if you're careless. Bikes can space out BIG thanks to their enormous bases. Space out right and the helldrake can only hit 3x bikes per turn, wounding on 3+ that's an avg of 2x bikes lost per turn. Hardly crippling and there's a fair number of options in the codex that can take on drakes if you're worried.<br /><br />Demons are a big problem but I think bikes have more of a chance than most armies because they're fast. Hopefully you're bringing thunderfires so you can attempt to snipe out heralds. It's tough, no doubts, but I can't think of an army that doesn't have issues with Deamons, they're a great army.Koronahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08250234754318025124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-68813176974713327102013-09-13T17:17:19.211-04:002013-09-13T17:17:19.211-04:00That's the thing--6th Ed just isn't favora...That's the thing--6th Ed just isn't favorable to MEQ. That 3+ doesn't get you as far as it used to.<br /><br />I'm not seeing anything in the new Marine book that will overcome that.<br /><br />It's actually been really fun watching the circular argument going on regarding Heldrakes--people are yelling "well, Marines will have a chance because not as many people are playing Heldrakes!" And what exactly do they think will happen if Marines become popular?Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-47566431029061099532013-09-13T15:25:46.597-04:002013-09-13T15:25:46.597-04:00Sure Grav Weapons have a hard time killing Guardia...Sure Grav Weapons have a hard time killing Guardians, but those Twin-Linked Bolters don't. I agree that people will think Grav-Guns are the new shit, and they will be everywhere in droves. If you run across Space Marines, i imagine majority will be on bikes, something Eldar don't really need to fear so much.SCP Yeemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09275376323671672419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-67750188036360489732013-09-13T15:20:18.255-04:002013-09-13T15:20:18.255-04:00Ah, I missed the imobilized result from the gravit...Ah, I missed the imobilized result from the graviton effect.<br /><br />If played as intended, then ouch, that is hectic!Heksanolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08835051889249412152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-17424562679759300452013-09-13T15:10:04.845-04:002013-09-13T15:10:04.845-04:00Then there's the whole $450 price tag on getti...Then there's the whole $450 price tag on getting the 30 bikes minimum you'll need. <br /><br />Of course you can apply the same FMC/Heldrake argument to Marines in general. How does an army built around a 3+ save fight AP3 torrent flamers that can reach anywhere on the board and you can't shoot at until after they've vaporized 20 models?CaulynDarrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14556761303500891267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-84088763072440567052013-09-13T15:04:55.955-04:002013-09-13T15:04:55.955-04:00Agreed. Mainly due to range, I think Plasma is go...Agreed. Mainly due to range, I think Plasma is going to, on the whole, outclass Grav weaponry.<br /><br />Gravturions may be popular, but won't be that nasty. They're still only 24", which is a very moderate threat bubble to deal with (okay, 30" with movement). And they don't seem to be a horrid nut to crack, either.<br /><br />And maybe I'm missing some rules, but how are Centurions popping land raiders galore? I thought Grav only glanced vehicles on a 6 (or auto-immob'd them, or something). Unless I just remembered that Immobilizing an already-immob'd vehicle just does an extra HP, in which case they only need 2 6's to drop any vehicle in the game.<br /><br />Still. Just assault them. Problem solved.Anonymous Foodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14362829012549159278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-36826152029400381162013-09-13T15:03:23.099-04:002013-09-13T15:03:23.099-04:00White Scars are almost certainly going to be the b...White Scars are almost certainly going to be the best build that Marine Codex can put out, but unfortunately (despite what the internet would lead you to believe) Tau and Eldar aren't the only two armies in existence.<br /><br />Ask anyone who tried Ravenwing seven months ago--Bike armies are all fun and games right up until you play CSM or Daemons, or to a lesser degree, even Necrons. White Scars are just Ravenwing with a couple new tricks, but none of those new tricks will help in the slightest against FMCs or Heldrakes.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-64919389010224589172013-09-13T14:53:40.175-04:002013-09-13T14:53:40.175-04:00Unfortunately, the source of the contention (as us...Unfortunately, the source of the contention (as usual) is people with blogs who don't know any better writing up horrible explanations--or just what they "feel" should happen--and spreading misconceptions to other people who haven't actually looked into it.<br /><br />There's already relevant FAQs for every one of those issues (stemming from Invul saves on vehicles, Dangerous Terrain on vehicles, and essentially the old Thunder Hammer 'shaken' issue) but they don't come out to what people expected, so it's mobs and pitchforks time.<br /><br />Unless GW FAQs it otherwise, I can tell you right now that 90% of tournaments won't allow cover saves and will strip the extra Hull Point for multiple-Immobilized. There's really no wiggle room for other interpretations beyond "I don't like it" or "I have no idea how the rules work but here's what I think." Natfka's article on the issue literally hurt my brain.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-57133176346585302342013-09-13T14:17:49.567-04:002013-09-13T14:17:49.567-04:00Centurions seem inferior to bike squads with 2x gr...Centurions seem inferior to bike squads with 2x grav guns. Their range and RoF is a little lower but they have the mobility to get where they need to be. White Scars will be the best army. Grav gun spam is amazing. The bikes are such a mobile and durable platform they become hellish to deal with for most armies.<br /><br />I'd approach it assuming a lot of players won't have received this memo. If you can field white scars I say go with them. Else adapt your build to shore up weaknesses to grav guns. I'd anticipate a lot of SM players jumping back into the game so a expect a big range of armies, not just "optimal" builds. Gearing up for killing MEQs isn't hard for eldar, shruiken weaponry does it great. I'd consider taking some guardians since they're hard to kill with grav guns and their catapults are great at shredding through 3+ saves.<br /><br />Overall, the lesson to stick with what you know is sound. The list is important but so long as you anticipate the new builds and make sure you have some counters you'll be fine. Finally do playtest the mantle autarch. I'd add a fusion gun to his build for extra lethality vs tanks, but he's fairly cheap for the amount of mayhem he can create. A re-rollable 2+ save is fantastic.Koronahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08250234754318025124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-24757767428855940632013-09-13T13:20:54.990-04:002013-09-13T13:20:54.990-04:00I personally like this idea the best. I personally like this idea the best. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025096466805741311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-57883975579629694752013-09-13T13:10:08.737-04:002013-09-13T13:10:08.737-04:00With FoB only a month away, I would go with your g...With FoB only a month away, I would go with your gut. This isn't the time to start experimenting and trying things out. Go with the list that you are familiar with and that can kil the Riptides and Wraithknights you will inevitably see. Probably not a bad idea to ensure you have a good numer of AP 2 weapons around for the Centurions people will run as well. <br /><br />I would hate for you to lose out on the ETC team because you were trying out a new list and experimenting with units you aren't very familiar with.<br /><br />My vote would be for Eldar/Tau only because i think it gives you the best chance to win and make the ETC team. Good luck man!SCP Yeemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09275376323671672419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-30062445260185729572013-09-13T09:58:35.681-04:002013-09-13T09:58:35.681-04:00There's some contention on whether the Immobil...There's some contention on whether the Immobilized Result strips a hull point as well. Also some contention of whether you can take saves against grav hits on vehicles as they don't cause actual glances or pens.<br /><br />GW rules writing at it's finest.CaulynDarrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14556761303500891267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-526350213160267292013-09-13T09:29:09.403-04:002013-09-13T09:29:09.403-04:00Thought LR had 4 hull points?Thought LR had 4 hull points?Heksanolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08835051889249412152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-5513013007517477642013-09-13T08:06:32.862-04:002013-09-13T08:06:32.862-04:00Personally I think Sm with Tau allies will be a ni...Personally I think Sm with Tau allies will be a nice counter. T-Fires can stay out of LOS and scour scoring units off the table. Tank Hunting/Ignores Cover Cents will pop Wave serpents and Buff Commander can tank wounds. Bikes running around with Grav and Scouts with LSS give nice tactical options. Your mobile, you hit hard from range and in close. Give it a shot. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11840150011167197719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-54801404846915532652013-09-13T01:28:14.996-04:002013-09-13T01:28:14.996-04:00Aye, or if he wants to spend the points, drop the ...Aye, or if he wants to spend the points, drop the lance and add the shard...go kill those Great Unclean Ones in a challenge and laugh while they go dead last40K + T&Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09058918571922538449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-17086648517590071942013-09-12T19:38:39.362-04:002013-09-12T19:38:39.362-04:00You only need 3 6's. Three twin linked centuri...You only need 3 6's. Three twin linked centurions average 3 6's.Spaguatyrinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459803772469387289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-19921412112557651102013-09-12T18:55:06.782-04:002013-09-12T18:55:06.782-04:00Killing that land raider is still banking on fair ...Killing that land raider is still banking on fair number sixes.Ironweevilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11391135624485083057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-68655508054109902062013-09-12T18:50:22.807-04:002013-09-12T18:50:22.807-04:00I agree here. Eldar have some wicked potential bey...I agree here. Eldar have some wicked potential beyond just wave serpents. Someone who is a good player can go really far with them.TheGraveMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202256201375802641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-71555457192231346982013-09-12T18:48:33.350-04:002013-09-12T18:48:33.350-04:00That, and against the "generic" MC profi...That, and against the "generic" MC profile, T6 3+, they basically function the exact same as plasma guns. plasma has better range, grav has a chance for more shots.<br /><br />Centurion with grav will kill a landraider in a single volley. just something to keep in mind.TheGraveMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202256201375802641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-12435692238930582062013-09-12T16:58:13.815-04:002013-09-12T16:58:13.815-04:00I think you're dramatically overestimating the...I think you're dramatically overestimating the impact of Centurions.<br /><br />Somehow, people keep looking at the statline of Grav Cannons and expecting them to serve as a counter to Riptides. How exactly would that ever work out under actual game conditions?<br /><br />Centurions are SNP Infantry with a 24" gun and their desired target has a Jet Pack, no desire to advance to midfield, and a 72" gun that is just as good at killing them as they are at killing it.<br /><br />Anyone who actually loses a Riptide to a unit of Grav Cannon Centurions should have their Riptide confiscated. Bike-mounted Grav Guns is the only serious means to threaten a Riptide with Grav weapons, and even that's a long shot.<br /><br />Grav weaponry in general is surfing on an enormous wave of hype that I don't believe they'll live up to in the slightest. You have to compare them to Plasma weapons, and their only upside compared to Plasma is killing Monstrous Creatures, while simultaneously being awful at killing Daemons.<br /><br />When your dedicated anti-Monstrous Creature weapons are terrible at killing Daemons, you might run into some conceptual problems down the line.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-67358076878466660962013-09-12T16:48:10.967-04:002013-09-12T16:48:10.967-04:00People have tried LR spam as a meta-counter all th...People have tried LR spam as a meta-counter all throughout 6th; it's just not reliable enough. Every new Codex release since Dark Angels has made people go "hey, nobody's taking Melta! Grab all the Land Raiders!"<br /><br />Even if you work from a perfect world where nobody ever kills any of your Land Raiders, the problem is that a single hard unit arriving via LR can't singlehandedly win the game the way they could in 5th, nor can units hide in it to score.<br /><br />Then there's the much, much bigger issue which is that there are still plenty of armies that can kill Land Raiders without actually trying; as long as Necrons and Daemons are semi-popular armies, the concept of spamming Land Raiders to counter Tau/Eldar just won't work, because either an FMC army will eat them without caring in the least or 100 points of Necrons will glance them to death.<br /><br />Iron Hands gives people a new excuse to try it, so it's good to think about playing against it, I just wouldn't put any faith in actually playing it yourself.Dodger3https://www.blogger.com/profile/13080674637620215681noreply@blogger.com