tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post7912350939008546384..comments2024-02-16T18:32:38.635-05:00Comments on The Back 40K: What's Up At Battlefront?Farmpunkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09622091234212120598noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-26393242204530176072015-02-06T22:07:45.397-05:002015-02-06T22:07:45.397-05:00I dunno, their idea of a new release is to put out...I dunno, their idea of a new release is to put out a book with a huge list of new units: Nuts! is like "hey you can collect the 653. Schwere Panzerjaegerabteilung now! How cool!!" Are people really that bothered about collecting hyper specific units? I doubt it, especially not how BF expects you to do it - buying new versions of your infantry and tanks to depict the new units perfectly.<br /><br />I'd much rather see books that help us to recreate scenes from famous films and documentaries from the period. Product lines would be terrain focused with big boxes to support the key units needed from the scenarios.Koronahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08250234754318025124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-46089491753592727662015-02-06T11:23:37.143-05:002015-02-06T11:23:37.143-05:00I understand the difficulties Steve. It's one ...I understand the difficulties Steve. It's one of the reasons that we've never tried to monetize our blog. The moment you do, you have all sorts of temptations and incentives tied up in that model that can lead you off track (or at least appear to). Even so, we've had problems when certain people/organizations wanted to cozy up to us to control our message about their event, and then went apeshit when we posted anything at all critical.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-2848939160972132402015-02-06T10:08:33.374-05:002015-02-06T10:08:33.374-05:00I believe actions speak louder than words, and I S...I believe actions speak louder than words, and I Stand by our treatment of Battlefront both on the site and on our podcast. Because I worked there (for a short time...) I do tend to avoid commenting on anything that would violate NDAs or be unprofessional. I've come to their defense when I felt it justified, and I've called them out when it was equally justified. Ultimately, WWPD is about FLAMES OF WAR, not Battlefront.<br /><br />I understand your comments, but I think they are unfounded :)Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00828249624651092157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-6716406507925295892015-02-06T10:02:30.343-05:002015-02-06T10:02:30.343-05:00I think Syn's comment has more to do with a pe...I think Syn's comment has more to do with a perception (both somewhat founded, but also assumed) that WWPD has closer ties to Battlefront (especially on a personal level) than any other gaming website that might cover them.<br /><br />I'm glad to see that you're not taking money from BF as a sponsor, or moderating your forum conversations. I'm also glad to see that you're putting up some BF critical articles. This is the age of gamergate though, so you'll always be viewed with a little suspicion where BF is concerned, since you did work for them at one time.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-80615411395895465862015-02-06T08:53:41.897-05:002015-02-06T08:53:41.897-05:00I dunno Sin, Arab Israeli is more interesting to m...I dunno Sin, Arab Israeli is more interesting to me than 'Nam. If we lived closer to guys that played, I'd totally do Jordanians, esp after the rules re-write. Before it was Israelis kicking everyone else around the sand, now it's a tough fight for both sides. <br />'Nam is interesting because of the point system, which makes it a pretty different game than WW2 or AIW. I played Nam Scenario for playtesting AbleKo's Gencon game. it was interesting. Americans are OP, until the point system comes into play.<br /><br />I agree that BF dropped the ball by not going more plastic sooner, and doing digital sprue design. I don't know for certain, but I'd suspect their sculptors are doing things the way they've been done for a while (handsculpting), and that translates well to resin production perhaps. I think it's time to use CAD based design, and machine out some injection molds, for a wide range of things.<br /><br />I liked Wilcox's article. I agree that for his playstyle, there aren't too many great LW German lists. Having said that, Panzer Lehr lists with primarily PzIV's are really good. They spearhead, and can bring a ton of AT11 guns to bear, plus numbers. With Allied players wanting to run big toys, cheap, protected ammo tanks with stormtrooper are awesome. SuperShermans.<br /><br />And like Steve-O points out below, WWPD isn't really on anyone's chain. They're hobby enthusiasts, and occasionally get benefits from close associations with companies (kinda like press-pre release stuff). I sat and played games with the guys at GenCon last year, and asked a bit. I didn't want to pry a lot, but basically, they like the Hobby and gaming, like we here at Back40K do. <br />Their interests vary, like ours do, Steve-o and most of the guys at WWPD are from Virginia, we're mostly from Indiana. I listen to their podcast, and the Breakthrough Assault podcast, because I think they're good, and I get a FoW hit from 'em. They're gamers, we're gamers. Steve-o went bigger on the network thing and polish than we did. That's more his area of interest and expertise. I can repair complicated lab equipment, and run cells through a cytometer like a mutha. SandWyrm can do 3-D stuff in his sleep.<br /><br />I also think if you want to read a bit more about it, the WWPD forum post has some good info, as well:<br />http://forum.wwpd.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15730<br />Webgriffin has done a good job digging up pertinent stuff to share there.<br /><br />and Bolt Action isn't kicking FoW around everywhere. I have almost no interest in 28mm WW2. ok, I have more interest in it than I do playing 28mm Weird War 2, but that's not saying much.<br /><br />My interest in this topic is mainly as a gamer/hobbyist. I really like FoW. I have an interest in how a company who makes product I like is handling moving into a new market environment. I think buying Wargames Illustrated was a move done with the heart, and not the head. I think not moving into plastics is a business misstep. I think perhaps BF should have made a move to buy PSC instead of WI. I think BF's moves to do more TableTop boardgames is probably a sound business move. I think ultimately buying Easy Army was a good move, even if people complained a lot about having to now pay for something they more or less got for free before.<br /><br />There are two sides to every story. I want to hear BF's side. We don't know how things have gone down, but signs are pointing to a cash flow issue at BF. <br />It's too bad the Kickstarter backers are the ones getting caught in the crossfire.Farmpunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622091234212120598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-41618238853504990052015-02-06T07:45:58.229-05:002015-02-06T07:45:58.229-05:00" I wonder if WWPD got an angry email from th..." I wonder if WWPD got an angry email from their sponsors when that post went up. Lolz."<br /><br />As the owner of WWPD- I can assure you, that we are not under any pressure from our advertisers (of which Battlefront is NOT one) on our content. We're keeping a close eye on this unfolding situation, and there is lively and totally unmoderated conversation going on on our forums. I'm not sure why you feel compelled to throw us in here as if we were guilty by association :)<br /><br />Hell, we were happy to post Bill Wilcox's thoughts, and would do so again!Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00828249624651092157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-21669475923485020502015-02-05T22:08:03.800-05:002015-02-05T22:08:03.800-05:00Paolo may not be acting professionally, but if he&...Paolo may not be acting professionally, but if he's not getting paid for his work, that's a legitimate gripe. If his company is facing ruin due to BF not honoring their contract, he may well feel that going public is the only way to shame BF into paying up.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-82953317220502583482015-02-05T22:00:51.175-05:002015-02-05T22:00:51.175-05:00I think it's more like X-Wing is kicking every...I think it's more like X-Wing is kicking everyone in the crotch. :)<br /><br />But yeah, it's sad to see BF getting a Palladium-like rep. They had such promise when 3rd edition was released. But they made some terrible strategic errors that they may never recover from.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-65178802740236009872015-02-05T21:56:05.244-05:002015-02-05T21:56:05.244-05:00The problems isn't them being WWII fans, it...The problems isn't them being WWII fans, it's that for the longest time their resin/metal models WERE the best in the business (for WWII games). But now they're not, and BF really has no idea how to compete with the likes of PSC (or 3D printing for that matter).<br /><br />I'd compare them to Apple in the early to mid 90's. They had their die hard fans still, but when Windows 95 came out they were blindsided. Their products were overpriced crap in comparison, and they didn't recover until Jobs returned and concentrated on making their products stand out again.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-71176668832159645482015-02-05T18:46:05.106-05:002015-02-05T18:46:05.106-05:00The problem is that they're WW2 fans first and...The problem is that they're WW2 fans first and businessmen second. The trouble is, once you know the difference between the Shermans it seems terribly important to depict that difference. And it's true in a way. I love WW2 trivia and I love that they have a model for a sIG33 auf Panzer I AND a Bison. It's a ludicrous level of detail and there's people who will eat it up.<br /><br />The issue is that they can't scale their game and they're locked into this weird setup where they want to depict the whole of WW2 at the company-ish level.<br /><br />If I were designing a WW2 game I'd go totally the other way. Maybe as few as 4 core kits per side, 6mm (Epic) scale, massive operations with huge numbers of units. It's not as detailed but you get a much bigger scope for operations. At that scale you don't need to depict units as clearly and can proxy a lot more.Koronahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08250234754318025124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-58529892765573776692015-02-05T18:16:16.511-05:002015-02-05T18:16:16.511-05:00PSC has been very clever in their growth- they'...PSC has been very clever in their growth- they're now producing the 'Battlegroup' Books, and I've seen more chatter about them online than I've seen about BF's silly 'Israel vs. the Muslims' Flames Expansion, which seems to be even LESS popular than their Vietnam effort.<br />Dunno how that's possible, cuz FLG's I went to for Flames Tournaments were literally giving that stuff away for peanuts and still no one wanted it.<br />Every single rivet counter type I know wants the same thing- 15mm Fulda Gap 80's era USSR vs Nato.<br />That's it. That's all we want. No middle east 6 Day War nonsense. No Vietnam, which barely had tanks at all and one side is basically insurgents.<br /><br />In all seriousness I think BF had eyes bigger than their stomach, as the saying goes.<br />They released the new Edition without a real starter set, and they basically GAVE AWAY tons and tons of rulebooks.<br />Ok, fine- that got 'em out there...wouldn't it have been awesome if all those folks who got one just outta curiosity had a starter set to buy?<br />Oh- that came much, MUCH later.<br /><br />Then PSC came along, and BF flailed about pathetically. I'll probably never stop laughing at this:<br />'Hai this is Battlefront. We know we said 3rd party models are no problem and we welcome competition, but...wow, we were really wrong! 3rd party models are a HUGE problem if people are actually going to buy them! And competition is actually HORRIBLE when your competition buries you with a superior product that's selling for HALF of what you're charging! Who knew? So yeah- y'all are gonna have to quit it with the 3rd part models.'<br />Oh that was just classic.<br /><br />Of course, while all this was going on they were screwing up late war and totally neglecting mid and early.<br />In a very Games Workshop-like maneuver, they decided to give a lil' boost to the Americans to help them...stop being the army no one plays.<br />They did that by making the Americans ridiculously OP, and any late war tournament results you see will clearly reflect this.<br />Bill Wilcox himself sealed the deal, when he wrote on WWPD that the Germans don't have a list of any type- Infantry, Mechanized or Tank, that is capable of competing on equal terms with the Americans. Ouch. I wonder if WWPD got an angry email from their sponsors when that post went up. Lolz.<br /><br />And now this unseemly nonsense.<br />Hey- nice job avoiding the subject with that post, BF.<br />:D<br />Yeah, we're SURE you want to resolve this through mediation- you certainly don't wanna get sued, huh?<br />Lolz!!!<br /><br />To tell ya the truth, I've lost any respect I had for BF as a company. The decisions they've made since the release of 3rd all make me suspect they very much wanted to be the next Games Workshop, but they skipped the VERY FIRST STEP:<br />Invest in the switch over to plastics.<br />Instead they skipped right over to the more advanced GW stuffs, like ignoring your customers and telling 'em what they want and continuing to overcharge for your products.<br />They did get one GW move right- 'We don't understand why everyone isn't buying our stuffs- we told them they wanted it!'<br />-_-<br /><br />And now Bolt Action is kicking Flames of War in the crotch.<br />Suck it, Battlefront.<br />:)<br /><br />SinSynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12352693991857976930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-44549626076705561032015-02-05T08:45:10.522-05:002015-02-05T08:45:10.522-05:00Yes, Microsoft did ignore the internet, until Gate...Yes, Microsoft did ignore the internet, until Gates suddenly realized what a big deal it was. Then, in one of the most famous business pivots in history, they suspended all development work and re-designed all of their products to introduce on-line features. They also developed Internet Explorer as a competitor to Netscape.<br /><br />Now, this being Microsoft, they didn't always do it the right way. But neither did they fail in the transition. By version 3, IE was actually better than anything else at the time, and their various technologies (like ActiveX) did actually work pretty well until the security problems with them became known.<br /><br />The "embrace, extend, extinguish" dominance thing was MS's classic MO under Gates, and that's what got punished in various anti-trust cases. But those actions were also what led Gates to invest in a failing Apple when Jobs returned. Jobs needed cash to keep Apple alive, and Gates needed a 'competitor' to trot out in front of the anti-trust people. SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-22490941463666988892015-02-05T07:49:56.330-05:002015-02-05T07:49:56.330-05:00I think that Dust is Paolo's baby, and he is a...I think that Dust is Paolo's baby, and he is a little to close to it. FFG can apparently still work with DS on X-Wing manufacturing, so it must be that he get gets a little too protective of his original IP. So a typical contract dispute that is usually handled behind the scenes(cause it's a bad idea for both parties to air dirty laundry) turns into a Facebook war.CaulynDarrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14556761303500891267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-22569250485875632532015-02-05T06:46:54.017-05:002015-02-05T06:46:54.017-05:00Is that Microsoft jab some hidden weird joke, sinc...Is that Microsoft jab some hidden weird joke, since as far as I know MS basically ignored the internet for a long time, leading to Netscape being bigger than they probably would have been. Only later they build up their dominance by putting IE into their OS (which got properly punished by the EU years later).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-9149437710705553912015-02-04T21:58:56.489-05:002015-02-04T21:58:56.489-05:00When you're facing competition that can crank ...When you're facing competition that can crank out superior versions of the most common tanks and infantry at less than half of your prices, then the only viable defense (if you can't match them) is to concentrate on the low-run niche versions of those troops that a company like PSC isn't going to bother with.<br /><br />Trouble is, the tooling for a single-tank sprue like the ones PSC uses can be as low as $5,000. Which means that eventually PSC (and others) WILL BE producing North African and SS types of stuff eventually. Their limitation is less about tooling costs than about the time it takes 2 guys to make a new production-ready 3D model, and buy injection-time with a plastics manufacturer.<br /><br />Surely, the costs for producing a Resin version for each of the 5-6 Sherman tank types (that only experts can tell the difference between visually) must be in the $5-10K range for the resin tooling, molds, labor, etc. It's just that Battlefront hasn't embraced digital design/tooling the way that Wyrd has. So they can't pump out their niche stuff in plastic efficiently.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-7793867504094551402015-02-04T20:53:01.610-05:002015-02-04T20:53:01.610-05:00Flames of War has always puzzled me. BF's unh...Flames of War has always puzzled me. BF's unhealthy relationship with plastic models is really weird.<br />I think the core of it is that their approach to game design is a WW2 fan's approach rather than a businessman's approach. They want /everything/ in their game no matter how obscure it was or how few were actually made. It's cool so it's in!<br /><br />The trouble for a model company is you end up with loads of product lines. That means lots of small production runs, which in turn favours resin casting. <br />A smart game design would be much more streamlined and focused on a smaller number of core units. Looking at the FoW site and the vast number of infantry squads rams home the problem. They want to sell you not only a rifle squad vs an SMG squad but an SS rifle squad or a pioneer rile squad etc. <br />They should sell a "box-o-dudes" like PSC does and then give extra options on the sprue to turn them into pioneers or whatever. That way they could run off a ton of them and get their costs down without constricting their range.Koronahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08250234754318025124noreply@blogger.com