tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post8518182872830643885..comments2024-02-16T18:32:38.635-05:00Comments on The Back 40K: WAAC vs. CompetitiveFarmpunkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09622091234212120598noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-29300618464154299952010-12-09T07:53:49.157-05:002010-12-09T07:53:49.157-05:00@Flekzo
I will often play a dumbed down list, or ...@Flekzo<br /><br />I will often play a dumbed down list, or leave units off the table when playing new players. I also constantly help newer players and give them tactical advice as I see a few other of the strong players in our club do. Unfortunately some people just don't like to listen. :)Spaguatyrinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459803772469387289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-21314376535252253242010-12-08T01:29:57.299-05:002010-12-08T01:29:57.299-05:00Very Nice write up guys. Sadly we have a den of t...Very Nice write up guys. Sadly we have a den of these yahoos. every time we hold a tournament at our FLGS they come out of the wood work. Its sad really.SeerKarandrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05864552771430102654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-5507724703310701532010-12-06T22:59:13.427-05:002010-12-06T22:59:13.427-05:00To qoute Wil Wheaton: "Don't be a dick.&q...To qoute Wil Wheaton: "Don't be a dick."<br /><br />WAAC means different things to different people, redefining it once more won't change anything per se. I choose to read your list as:"The first type of player I don't like, the second I do". The first one sounds like he(she?) needs professional help. Acting like that is disturbing social behavior. <br /><br />Also wanting to play well is not a bad thing. I want that (which drives my wife bonkers as she doesn't have a drive to win and I most often beat her in any and all games). Heck I have yet to play my first 1500p or more game but I can build list on the top of my head for a few codexes. Not all units but still, I've thought about armies a bit:)<br /><br />A random thought. Has anyone played point handicapped games with noobs? Could be a fun idea:)Flekkzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14508641232973488303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-6682404022670632010-12-06T19:54:09.095-05:002010-12-06T19:54:09.095-05:00@ Sandwyrm Thanks boss, appricitate it.
@ Ellesa...@ Sandwyrm Thanks boss, appricitate it.<br /><br />@ Ellesar: I think you read into the comment to far. I playa asimple strategem, which is to take and get my Wolves across the board where they can do the max amount of damage. But for some reason while it is a simple little tactic, for some reason over half of the people that I play against are looking for something much past that to happen, so I get the added benefit of not having to be much more strategic than that, as they have lost the game by out thinking themselves. Which is just fine with me, as I didn't want to have to try that hard anyways.ZerkeXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07028453559977628685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-65898585175801672372010-12-06T17:20:39.520-05:002010-12-06T17:20:39.520-05:00My personal definition of WAAC is very different.....My personal definition of WAAC is very different... but that could just be me. I would agree that, for my own use, the proper term for what is described here would simply be "cheater". Probably proceeded by "dirty".<br /><br />But, if that's the consensus, then I'll use it... I'm not picky.<br /><br />I think the best thing I can do is emphasize what really matters to me - sportsmanship.<br /><br />What I've considered WAAC in the past, boils down to someone who will throw out any sense of fun and good sportsmanship in order to focus entirely on the win. Not to the point of purposefully cheating, per se, but still enough to leave a bad taste in your mouth.<br /><br />This is, yet again, why I avoid tournaments. Spag's comment on a previous post about how it's wrong to expect people to keep common sense when money is on the line sums it up nicely.<br /><br />My response is something along the lines of: <br /><br />"Really?"<br /><br />I can fully understand wanting to win more than usual when it's more than just bragging rights on the line, but to go that far... that, to me, is bad sportsmanship, which quickly leads to an un-fun game.<br /><br />If we play a game, bring a solid list. Bring your A game. But please, leave the petty arguments at the door.Anonymous Foodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14362829012549159278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-38081738898820015312010-12-06T10:56:07.964-05:002010-12-06T10:56:07.964-05:00Article - {^}
ZerkeX - If you're opponents ou...Article - {^}<br /><br />ZerkeX - If you're opponents out think themselves, then they aren't providing the level of challenge needed for you to have a cohesive strategy...this doesn't mean you don't have one in your head, you may even have it subconsciously, never forced to actually go quite that far.<br /><br />This is by no means an insult to the other players, ofc, not least because the majority of my opponents are no better. I have a strategy because that's how I function, not because I need it for several of them.TheKing Elessarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04981821487098781957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-9600746470219675462010-12-06T10:21:42.428-05:002010-12-06T10:21:42.428-05:00@ZerkeX
Got ya covered. Duplicate comments remove...@ZerkeX<br /><br />Got ya covered. Duplicate comments removed. ;)<br /><br />Second, I didn't mean to imply that all simple tactics are WAAC-only. All Simple Tactics players are not WAAC, but most WAACs are pretty straightforward on the field. Reason being that they don't actually play the game very well.<br /><br />Their usual MO is to invent (or more likely download) some uber-list that's meant to run up and smash their opponent into dust. If their opponent beats them, then the WAAC moves on to another uber-list instead of learning to use tactics themselves.<br /><br />It's their outlook at work. They want easy wins, not to learn from or overcome a challenge. Because that requires losing some games while you improve. Which their egos can't handle.<br /><br />Donkey, for instance, loved to play me in my early days of 5th edition. Because I would line up on one side of the field with my gunline and just shoot him up without moving. This allowed Donkey to simply run straight across the field with his Orks and smash up my line in a bloody orgy of destruction which was very much to his liking. <br /><br />I also didn't know the rules or Ork codex well enough to know when he was cheating me blind.<br /><br />Farmpunk though, would drive Donkey absolutely batcrap insane with his drop-guard because he'd use tactics and baiting strategies to chew him up without letting him get the mass kills he wanted so badly. <br /><br />We even set up a game once where Donkey got to use Farmpunk's guard vs. his Grey Knights. I had to deploy his forces because Donkey's eyes glazed over when I tried to advise him on how to set up his squads. When the game started, Farmpunk tabled him in 3 turns, causing Donkey to throw a fit and go home. :)SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-62038355973705994752010-12-06T02:17:23.680-05:002010-12-06T02:17:23.680-05:00Agree with fester, Sandwyrm has hit it on a T.
Me...Agree with fester, Sandwyrm has hit it on a T.<br /><br />MessangerMessanger of Deathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107009355887227092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-88125850436862374852010-12-06T01:20:24.897-05:002010-12-06T01:20:24.897-05:00I for one kind of resent the remark about unsophis...I for one kind of resent the remark about unsophisticated tactics. I have a what seems to me to be an efficient, and brutal tactic. Get there, get the job done. If they outclass me in hand to hand, Stand back and shoot them till they are not there any more! <br /><br />But you only accredit this to a WAAC Gamer. Which I find to be very off. I do not under any circumstances think that I am a WAAC gamer, if I am wrong then the people on here that actually know me will be more than happy to let me and you all know about it. <br /><br />Past that, I feel a little differently about tournaments than most people, as I grew as a gamer in the MTG community, which is so much more cuthroat than the 40K universe is. Go to a high end tournament in MTG, there is constantly the following word being thrown around: JUDGE! No kidding, I think that if you are going to be going to a tournament, and you want to play your tenth company scout army, then more power to you. It is probably a beautiful army. But when I crush you because I came with a competitive army, that brings my Codex's potiential, then do not whine and cry about it. I didn't build your list for you, I built mine not tailored to one specific army type, but to all comers, if don't, that is your problem.<br /><br />If this makes me a WAAC person, then whatever. I will be glad to sit down with people and help them out with their armies. I will sit and talk with people after a game, stomping by me, or them kicking my face into the curb the whole time, and talk the turns out to see where the game went where it went. I like to understand why I lost the game, and it is always a fun challenge, and objective to play those who are better, and smarter players than myself. that is what I want to do. <br /><br />I'm not against the whole 'fluff' aspect of the game. I play my army most of the time, as just something to laugh at. It is far from good when a single troop choice is costing me over 1K in points. Then I'm staring down an entire army, and all I have are two troops and a predator. thats real fun. But when I'm playing someone I have yet to have a one sided game against, I'll play the best thing I can conjour up. Now I'm rambling, but never the less, I resent the remark about unsophisticated tactics. That is just unfair, even my pathetic tacitc is one that needs to have alot of thought put into it...otherwise I'll just lose.ZerkeXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07028453559977628685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-91744615572209093672010-12-06T00:02:06.147-05:002010-12-06T00:02:06.147-05:00*pictures Michael Jordan schooling him*
now that&...*pictures Michael Jordan schooling him*<br /><br />now that's an analogy :P.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07693773850422698445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-66403501847120524712010-12-05T23:36:31.408-05:002010-12-05T23:36:31.408-05:00The primary difference is the attitude. The compet...The primary difference is the attitude. The competitive player plays to be challenged so that his win means something. <br /><br />The WAAC player, on the other hand, doesn't care how empty the win may be. He's just as happy beating up a 12 year old's battleforce army as he is winning against a strong 20+ year old player.<br /><br />Cheating commonly follows because he doesn't care about anything but the win. Hence the "at all costs" part of the label. The baby seals typically don't know the rules that well, so it's easy to get away with bending them.<br /><br />Competitive players, on the other hand, aren't Win-at-all-costs because they place restrictions on their efforts to win such as staying within the rules, or not beating up kids. <br /><br />Some go further with more arbitrary restrictions like full WYSIWYG models or not taking commonly used units. They may even go against the norm and take (as an example) all-foot lists to make any wins they get all the sweeter and prove something to the community at large.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-85478631019298299212010-12-05T23:20:39.613-05:002010-12-05T23:20:39.613-05:00@fester: While my definition of WAAC may be slight...@fester: While my definition of WAAC may be slightly different than you, i totally agree that you can play hard and competitively and not be a WAAC player. My point is that a lot of those things Sandwyrm lists as 'WAAC habits' shouldn't label someone as a WAAC player, but instead as a cheater, instead. <br />I think people who are too polite with people cheating in game, and justify those actions as someone just 'being a WAAC player' just make it easier for those same people to continue to cheat and give competitive players a bad name.<br />My point is that cheating should be called as such, rather than euphemistically calling it WAAC or 'overly competitive play.Caanaanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02045307659036856978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-66690528808961737272010-12-05T22:59:16.918-05:002010-12-05T22:59:16.918-05:00Caanaan: I think SandWyrm has it on a T personally...Caanaan: I think SandWyrm has it on a T personally.<br /><br />You can play hard, to the letter of the law, and win without being WAAC. As a competitive gamer attempting to play at their best, being called "WAAC" insinuates that you did something outside the rule to win. This is, for 99% of competitive gamers, just not the case.festerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08696875815801425052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519319818452068646.post-86174344534290494612010-12-05T22:47:07.525-05:002010-12-05T22:47:07.525-05:00I think you are being too generous here - a lot of...I think you are being too generous here - a lot of those habits you attribute to WAAC player, I would only only attribute to a cheater. <br />I personally consider WAAC player to be those who play within the game, but bend the rules and play with complete disregard to their opponent and their opponents fun. Only slightly better than a cheater, but I think NOT calling out cheaters as such just enables them.<br />Thankfully, I have only encountered a handful of cheaters, but, by my definition, I have played against, or seen, WAAC players at probably 50% of the local tournaments I have been to.Caanaanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02045307659036856978noreply@blogger.com