So for years now I have read and heard about how broken Space Marines are and how GW..
Loves the mighty space marine and how Xenos never have a chance. Well in my humble and often correct ;) opinion, The top 4 competitive armies are ALL XENOS!!
In no particular order I believe these 4 codices are:
Eldar
Tau
Necron
Tyranids
Where does this opinion come from? I look at how the Grand Tournaments, local RTT's, and where the meta is shifting to. Now obviously with Allies there other races involved in this presumption. But I believe tournaments speak for themselves.
Winners
Adepticon: Necrons
Bugeater: Tyranids
BAO: Daemons
The Indy Open: Necrons
Killedelphia: Tau
Tippcon: Necrons
2nd or 3rd or 4th place
Broadside Bash: Tau 2nd
Colonial GT: Necrons 3rd
Adepticon Championships: Necron 3rd, and 4th
Adepticon GT: Necron tied for 2nd
The Indy Open: Necron 2nd and 4th
There are also a lot of Chaos Daemons in the top tiers at these events and even though they are not Xenos per se they are not Space Marines.
These are the past. Where is the future taking us. With my friends I speak with on the east coast which is what I believe to be ahead of the meta by a good 2 months. Eldar/Wave Serpent spam is the next necron/annihilation barge craze. They are tremendously good and better than annihilation barges!
Where are the whiners now? The ones that constantly complained about how Xenos never get a chance? Well Xenos players now is your chance! Take advantage of the power that has been afforded you by GW.....
That is until the new space marine codex comes out..... hahahah. But seriously I am very excited to see how GW is putting out updates and maybe, just maybe someone has heard or come up with a marketing strategy and game schedule that will drive more people into different armies and bring more people into the game or back to the game. Either way, the time of the Xenos is here! Rejoice while the space marine players put their supermen away for half a year. I did it. Do I feel bad, not really, but I am still trying different combinations and am having a blast doing it. I played Orcs as allies for the first time at Tippcon and loved them. I said I would never play orcs. I played Chaos Space Marines as allies and said I would never play them either. It has been a fun experience for me.
How about you?
What Xenos are you going to rock?
Have you tried anything you never thought you would?
Just this weekend I answered a call from a stranger to join him at the pairs tournament at Warhammer World. We took nids and not a list I would describe as 100% competitive, maybe 75-80%
ReplyDelete1 Winged Hive Tyrant, 3 Tervigons, 2 Hive Guard, a Trygon, 10 Devgaunts, 11 Vanilla Termagants, the DOOM! in a pod [obviously] and a Bastion.
We came 2nd out of 68 pairs! Not bad for a force made up in a couple of nights and two players unaccustomed to each other.
However, the recent Throne of Skulls I think saw 2 out of the top 3 most popular armies were Xenos - Tau [on the back of the new Codex] and Tyranids! That and another [possibly Astartes based] Codex had 7 competitors each and the Army with the highest points ratio was... Tyranids!
At this rate I don't want a new Codex!
Tyranids are strong and will probably only get better in a new dex. I think GW is really shaking things up. The biggest test well be the huge space marine codex.
DeleteAmazing times
I love that a Tyranid army won Bugeaters.
DeleteI've almost completely dumped Imperium armies; their lack of durable tanks, high rate of fire power and slow moving vehicles means they are behind xeno armies. Xenos in my opinion get a lot cooler tricks, not so popular (as they do not have 7 codexes for one race) so you do not see so many the same and are all different. Black Templars, Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc are all the same, they just have slightly different play style but a Marine is still a Marine.
ReplyDeleteImperial armies still have the nominal advantage of being able to field more units.
DeleteYou know, it's really interesting how the game is progressing in terms of meta with Xenos releases. It's funny because although the MEQ seems to be on the wane, it's also simultaneously true that MEQs could be a serious meta buster at the moment as well.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest threat to MEQs for the last few months has been the Heldrake, bar none. But now that Tau/Eldar are taking over the top spots with Necrons still hanging out there, the Heldrake, heck the entire CSM book, barely warrants a nod in the meta anymore.
And funnily, with Necrons, Tau, and Eldar all relying heavily on moderate strength, high AP shots to do their work, with Tau and Eldar especially relying on "Ignores Cover" to get the most bang out of their buck.... actually puts MEQs in a great position in the meta.
Not in the sense that we all kind of remember which elite armies or vehicle based armies (because let's face it, Wave Serpents are so much better than any other Mech list at the moment running Mech at this point elsewise is a joke)... but rather in an MEQ army that simply leverages its 3+ or 2+ save to maximum benefit.
So, although the days of 30 MEQs on the board are long gone... we are strangely also arriving at the days where 80+ MEQs on the board is a game winner in the meta.
I've been playing for almost 16 years. only last year did I try a power armored list and it lasted about a month before I was bored. In my area marines make up perhaps 1/4 of the armies but the people who play them are usually just starting and new to the game so they don't rank up as high.
ReplyDeleteI actually enjoy the challenge of playing SM against the new xenos armies. Bring the best xenos list you have to the table, and I'll have fun learning how to beat it one game at a time. :)
ReplyDeleteXenos have always been some of the strongest lists. Orks, Nids, Eldar, Tau, Necrons. All have been extremely strong or reasonable solid from 3rd edition onward. People just have a limited memory and don't generally understand that non-MEQ armies have generally been some of the best around. Why? Because they excelled at killing MEQ which have almost always been the most numerous armies.
ReplyDeleteSo basically we're where we've always been.
Yes but the Xenos have never been so powerful in my estimation. One codex at a time, but for the top 5 to not be imperials or space marines... epic. :-D
DeleteI am majorly stoked to run my fluffy Yme-Loc grav tank spam.
ReplyDeleteI thin nids doing well is more a testiment to the players than the codex. I still think gk have a strong standing. I've always rated chaos marines a lot higher than most, maybe I just play against really good players. Haha
ReplyDeletedustin is one of the best players in the state. so Chaos Space Marinesare not as good overall.
Delete6th edition is truly about the general. in 5th edition it was more about the list. In this edition the game mechanics allow for a good tactical general 2 out playing a better list easier than last edition.
Tyranids and demons both play very strongly.
Do you think these are the best stand alone armies or where do you think allies come in? I believe IG is still very powerful and i think coupled with Space Wolves they are definately top tier. I do not disagree with your assessment.
ReplyDeleteEldar are great because theyre new and havent been thoroughly.played yet but i believe they will remain up there. They have a very nice compliment of units.
Necron are stil great with their fliers amd barges.
Nids i believe got stronger because Runes Of Warding are gone.now. Also, with everyone focused on shooting and bringing str 7 and not all of it with low ap (tau) they are able to survive longer.
Tau are great with all of their shooting and.ability to counter almost any.list out there. Ignoring cover is brutal and the high str weapons are devastating.
These dont even include.the ally possibilites among each other.
I believe that there will be very few top tier army lists that don't have allies. when you can take a weakness and fill it with a strength why would you not? it's almost likethe US not using NBA players for the Olympics.use all the tools in your arsenal to compete.
DeleteSpeaking of Necrons
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/07/chaos-necrons-ftw-adepticon-2013.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SpikeyBits+%28Spikey+Bits%29
Ignoring a major game mechnaic like cover will make a VERY powerful army. Though I do beat them as often as not, I loath fighting Tau, because it's a constant exercise in avoidance to win/get to grips and makes me pull out (what little) hair I have left. I've yet to face a competent general of the NEW Eldar, but I'm sure their hide-like-jet-pack-tau army wide ability will be even worse :)
ReplyDeleteI still think GK can field extremely strong armies at MEQ. Hell I still think a Draigowing can be competitive is played correctly. I am even debating trying to make my Draigowing my primary army rather than my CD/CSM list. I think every army (with the exception of possibly Black Templars) in their current state COULD win a GT, but its the general, not the list that will win it.
ReplyDeleteI think GK are 5th and the top meq dex for sure. We will see when codex space marines comes out. Paladins are ok. Just not my cup of tea.
DeleteI'm loving the xeno's rise to power. Makes for much more cinematic games when my marines aren't just fighting other marines. I also think the xeno's players always like facing off against marines, both because of their "power level" and because at the end of the day its always good to have marines on a table in 40k.
ReplyDeleteAlso I like this post. I remember all of the bitchfests that happened last year. Everyone and their mother was crying about how 40k was ruined and it was all marines. This really has shut them up... on that topic. So now they are free to bitch about the next thing in line.
That's the same sentiment I feel. But you won't see those same complainers now complimenting the changes. I think GW has played it smart.
DeleteOh, there's still plenty to complain about. 40 dollar codex supplements are right now at the top of my list.
DeleteWhile it's nice to have some armies that are playable now, I'm disappointed that it's mostly because of how ridiculous they made Wave Serpents. The key problem being if you take Wave Serpents out of the equation you still have a pretty poorly designed codex.
Swapping GK and Necrons for Tau and Eldar at the top of the meta doesn't fix the inherent problems with the game. I'd rather see a more evenly balanced playing field. It's not cool that I get to have 6-8 months enjoying the game now while all the other players get to moan about how OP my armies are.
Maybee the GW design studio has turned thing around in house. I'm not willing to say that any success is anything but accidental at this point.
This comment is very blah.
DeleteWe can't see into the future, so we don't know how long the eldar codex will be viable, or even what army will be on top in a year. In fact, we can't know what codex's will even be out in a year. You also have no obligation to review/rescind this comment if GW does indeed continue the trend and 40k becomes even more balanced with tons of builds that are viable through a myriad of codex's and supplements.
All we can do is look at facts and make opinions about the "right now". Fact is GW is doing better. Xeno's are more powerful than they were in 5th edition. Codex's are coming out and doing well, as well as staying relevant as more codex's come out. This is good for everyone involved, and doubly good for people who stick with their army of choice.
Part of the top of the power level is that people don't necessarily know how to beat the newest thing yet. Also we don't know what the next army will be. The next army may be counters, and the new shiny toy won't work as well for a balanced army. In this sort of rolling releases, its impossible to look at the overall balance unless we get a release for every army. And in that case, we have so many options (and allies too) that overall balance can't really be decided on until a ton of games are played for a long time.
As for supplements, they aren't obligatory, so their cost is fine I think. They add even more options to a game with a lot of options. It's probably impossible to own all the books, but it will make games much more varied and that is never a bad thing.
Better go tell all those meteorologists that their careers are irrelevant. Apparently we can only make judgments about "right now", and not do anything crazy like make predictions based on available data and past events.
DeleteAnd if you think $40 for two pages of rules is a good thing, I consider your opinions very "blah"
and comments like Nelsonus' are why I don't comment, post, or make any predictions regarding 40K.
DeleteThere seems to be a glut of people who only want to hear cheering for GW. I prefer critique and critical thinking.
I fell CaulynDarr is more or less on the nose with his observations of 40K.
then again, I feel 40K is becoming the 'elite' expensive hobby GW's handlers always wished it to become. since 6th ed, GW has come up with new ways to mine cash from it's playerbase.
I don't beieve for one minute any of the xenos power adjustments has anything remotely related to maintaining balance in the game GW's designers want to be a "beer and pretzels" game.
any new balance is a happy accident.
I believe their changes are more to sell consumers more widgets, or meeples, or whatever generic product name you wish to apply.
The Rules supplements are another way to sell more expensive codexes. If GW was really big on 'helping out' the players, the couple pages of rules might be included in the already expensive codex, OR the supplement might include the necessary codex in it.
and if you still believe GW has YOUR best interests in mind, I wanna sell you a bridge...
the balance is a lie.
My post didn't discuss balance or helping the player. It started that I think Gw is doing good putting out new codex material and I hoped it brought players into and back to the game. The only balanced game is chess or checkers in my opinion. I dislike not.
DeleteHaving new material is good, even if I think it's pretty overpriced for what you get.
DeleteReasonable balance is possible, if GW makes it a priority. But we can't draw any broad conclusions yet. As these books are still in their honeymoon phase.
As for more players, I'd say no. But we'll see when the financial reports get posted at the end of the month. After all this new product, sales should be WAY up (like double). If they're only up a little bit, or are flat, that will indicate that the playerbase has shrunk. With fewer customers paying more for their toys.
@farmpunk and @caulyndar
DeleteI think I didn't lay out my point well enough. I also believe in critical thinking and critiquing, but I also agree in looking at all sides of an argument. And looking at current facts along with past actions and not putting those past actions up as guaranteed outcomes. I can return your comment about the "glut" of people that thinks GW farts roses by saying there is always people who hate on everything GW does and the direction its going.
Sorry if me thinking differently than you makes you not want to post. For someone who likes critiquing and critical thinking, I'd think you would like a counterpoint to your opinions.
Last thing. Hobby's are expensive. The world is expensive. I buy a beer at a baseball game and it costs $9. $9, after I paid ~$50 for a ticket, and I'll piss it out in less than an hour. I spend $27 dollars for the latest Drizzt 300 page hardcover novel. I spend $5 dollars at a bar for a beer, plus tip. I bought a gaming laptop for $1400. I buy all those things because they make me happy. That's what hobbies do, but they are also not vital to me living. I can live without bars, without going to baseball games, without reading another book before it gets to libraries. And I can live without buy 40k supplements. Luckily, I can also buy them if I want them, and pay the price that the vendor sets up. GW needs to make money for the 40k world to keep going. I would much rather still have the amazing world of 40k around ten years from now because they charged $40 for a supplement than have 40k be discontinued but have cheap models and rules for 2 years.
This went long and will most likely be ignored. Woops.
I could spend that kind of money on hobbies when I was young. Hell, I could spend it 4-5 years ago easily. But not anymore. And the tighter my gaming budget gets, the less sense GW's products make.
DeleteI have already said it a couple of times. Yes the changes are good but its hard not feeling like tau are the grey knights of 6th edition. With the stuff they can spam it isn't too hard to pull off a win with a strong tau build.
ReplyDeleteI kind of disagree with necrons being top 4 now that tau and eldar hit. Riptides alone destroy wraith wing. Eldar can slaughter a wraith wing all the same. Necrons still have flyer spam but we are seeing a gradual end to the flyer heavy list.
IMHO my meta buster is sisters... no one will see me coming. ;)
if you want Sisters. I have Sisters I'm willing to part with. ;)
DeleteI have a large sisters army that is just too expensive to bring into the meta anymore. Battle sisters need to be cheaper (Point and cost wise) and the buffs need to be better.
DeleteAlso just to bust your chops. The BAO deamons victory wasn't the current book so it doesn't count. :P I stick by my opinion that the current daemon dex will not win a GT.
ReplyDeleteI'm very happy that you're enjoying yourself Spag, but let's inject some logic into this discussion.
ReplyDeleteThe Tau codex is only 4 months old at this point. The Eldar codex has been out for what? 2 months? So I think it's a bit early to make any sweeping generalizations about their long-term viability, and the balance of the game as a whole.
It took what? 6-8 months before the cracks really started appearing in the Ork codex? Unfamiliarity with the new hotness will give you a leg up for a while. But long-term, the books have to stand on their own without the one-trick pony builds and the allies crutch to be called 'good'.
So we'll see. I'm glad you're having fun though.
Let's be honest here. Since 6th ed there has only been one imperial codex released. Those who think that marines will not make a comeback are deluding themselves. It's apparent that 6th edition codices are better at 6th edition. In each codex (CSM being an exception) you see an emphasis on cheaper troops, faster units, MCs, Skyfire, and shooting in some combination. How good would Tau be with 9-10 point Kroot? CD with 22 pt Plaguebearers?
ReplyDeleteGW made a conscious decision to address the long suffering Xenos codices and a horribly broken Daemon codex first. Now the attention will be shifting back to Imperials with a glut of marine codices and supplements with the Guard looming on the horizon. Expect the Marine codex to feature cheaper marines, faster units, MCs, Skyfire, and excellent shooting. Will they be better than Tau or Eldar? Who knows, but you can bet they will play a spoiler to at least one of the top dex's out there.