Otoshigo (oh, it's you, Bob) Wrote:sorry I didn't get around to this over the weekend, I had a full plate. Here goes my take on pure GK's:
First, I really enjoy the Back40K; you guys do a great job on there.
As you might have guessed from the subject line, this is going to be in reference to your '4 Things' post from awhile back. I've read it and re-read it and I think it has improved my list building, so thanks for that.
I have a special request however. I have been playing a lot recently with a pure Grey Knight army. So, no Inquisitor, no stormtroopers, etc. My question for you is, how do I meet the '4 things' criteria with only Grey Knights? Can it be done? I picked up a bunch of models used, so I'm not limited by that (well, I only have one dread built atm...) Any assistance on this would be greatly appreciated.
I think that currently, Pure GK's are in a major uphill battle in 5th ed. With no way to really touch LandRaiders, and only able to assault Leman Russes, it's a hard road.
but let's look at the Long range options for pure GK's:
A Land Raider.
ooh. Two Twin-linked Lascannons! no multimelta upgrade available, and no Frag assault launchers.
An Orbital Strike.
not much to look at here. if it hits something, you're lucky. Use the Melta Torpedo if you're going to use this. Rolling 2d6 twice is nice even if you didn't get a direct hit.
Dreadnaughts.
Your Decent Long range choices here are going to be either the Twin-Linked Autocannon, or the Twin-linked Lascannon. Then a Missile Launcher for the other arm. Not great options, but workable.
Mini-Purgation Squad.
Take a troop GK squad, and add 2 Psycannons. Stick it in cover on an objective, and it's some Long Range Fire support. Being Troops, it scores.
When you get your GK's close, you've got a few more options for you to crack armor, but again, they're not great options.
Up close for Heavy Anti-tank you can put Meltabombs on your Justicars. ooh. and then they get their attack against the armor that should probably have moved 12". It's not great.
Your Land Raider Crusader will help you out a little, like I stated earlier.
Then, you've got a bunch of Str6 attacks.
Which might do something vs. Leman Russses, but won't touch a Land Raider or a Monolith.
Then again, if you're fighting a Necron player, they're hurting from old codex syndrome too.
I dunno. I think GK's need help from other elements.
I think GK's need to induct IG even more than WH do. GK's can do some useful things with multiple Land Raider Crusaders, which coupled with the DH PotMS via the FAQ, gives you a Multimelta shot after moving 12", and then Hurricane bolter shots on top of that. it's not too bad. it's not too great either.
If you add in a platoon w/Autocannons, you've got some light transport stopping ability, which can then give your GK's and GKT's something to charge once they get out of their LRC's.
An Inducted platoon also lets you have access to Chimeras. Chimeras can haul both GK's and GKT's with little problem. A GK Bro. Cap with psycannon, and Psychic Hood with his retinue w/ psycannon might set you back some points, but in the chimera, they've got a cheap ride, which protects them from lascannon fire for at least 1 turn. If your opponent doesn't shoot their chimera, remind them what 2 psycannons shooting out the back of a chimera at full range can do. 40" S6 shots? not too bad, really.
IST's in rhinos let you bring cheap, accurate Meltas to the fight. I mean 125pts? A few more points to get always glancing smoke? it's pretty cheap for a unit meant to charge up, hop out of a rhino, and pop a tank.
Here's an old DH list, that's still pretty good. Farmpunk's 1500pt DH list I think I played Sandwyrm with it a couple of times. like, a Year or so ago.
I use Inquisitors, and IST's in that list to cover holes. With the Callidus, and first turn, you can engineer a 1st turn charge by moving a juicy target to 18" from your Land Raider Crusader. Move 12", disembark your GK's 2", then charge 6". You're kicking Booty 1st turn.
You could also swap the big unit of GK's for GKT's. I didn't own GKT's at the time, so this list doesn't.
I'll try to remember to do a DH list in the near future. Any requests for size?
1850/2k is a good size.
ReplyDeletePlatoons are almost necessary for DH, they provide the cheap bodies, long range AT and extra melta GKs just don't have.
And cheaper transports. :)
ReplyDeleteif it was for a modelling purpose could you make ists and =][= jus GK scouts :P
ReplyDeleteSure, Why not?
ReplyDeleteI have been planning on using Cadians with Heads from Pig Iron, but SM Scouts with lasguns works too.
basic thing is that IST's have lasguns with a little kick to them, not bolters.
Inquisitors are easy enough to find stuff for. I use a GK w/psycannon for mine most of the time. I mean, he's wearing power armor anyhow.
The Vets that are part of the =I= retinue are Veteran IST's.
I don't think most people would balk at SM scouts with Hbolters or plasma cannons 'counting as' Servitors.
(Otoshigo's alter-alter-ego) I appreciate all the input. Like I said in SandWyrm's thread, I guess I knew the answer before I asked. I've even thrown some IA2 stuff in to help a bit, but it still doesn't address some of the bigger holes. I do like that GK Redeemer though :-) I'll just cross my fingers and hope for some GW love in the not-to-terribly-distant future.
ReplyDeleteI agree? Not sure what else to say; even though I love GK, until they get some simple things like a reduction in cost, they're a splinter force.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to find a proper analogy in other, newer codexes similar to where the GK's are with the DH codex.
ReplyDeleteThey're good, but they alone can't be a highly effective fighting force.
You need to use all of the tools in the box. Using Just GK's is kind of like using only boys squads and nobs on foot for orks, with 1 warboss.
its severely limiting. Allies and Induction bring DH and WH closer to par with newer codexes in versatility and options.
"Chimeras can haul both GK's and GKT's with little problem"
ReplyDeleteChimeras can haul Terminators?
yes they can. Chimeras can carry Ogryn, which are Terminator size.
ReplyDeleteTermies count as two passengers, due to their size, so a chimera can haul 6 GK Termies.
I've used it before. It's kinda neat to ride around with a squad of termies with 2 psycannons, which can shoot the full 36" from inside the moving Chimera.
Wow I didnt even think of that. I guess I just look at the DH codex and see Land Raider and how many it can carry and not even think about the Chimera aspect.
ReplyDelete