I'm catching bigger and bigger bits 'o information about 6th ed, and I thought I'd share some interesting tidbits about allies, since wild rumors and hearsay from under the cloud of silence is so good for everyone.
so I'll share something Stelek put up, and it's not complete. I wish I had the full matrix of to what extent people can ally. Alas, I have no real rulebook, so Stelek's stuff is going to have to do for now.
there's some interesting basic info there. Nothing about how well you can ally, but just the basic yes/no.
and this link in from Boxer Saint:
Faeit 212 provides me with a nice pic and there are more pics there to gander at:
add in what Big Red put up on BoLS today:
The 4 Categories of Allies:
Battle Brothers - these allies are truly friends and benefit from each other's universal special rules, psychic powers, and everything, they act as one force.
Allies of Convenience - these allies will fight together if they have a common foe, they do not get to benefit from each others USR or powers, and in effect act as independent armies on the table.
Desperate Allies - these allies only fight in dire straights and gain no benefit from each other. you must roll a d6 if the roll is failed your allies do nothing for the turn as they are watching you for betrayal.
Not Before the Apocolypse - these armies listed here can never be allies.
So, if you can ally, you get an allied detachment of:
MANDATORY
- 1 HQ (not an IC)
- 1 Troop
OPTIONAL
- 1 Troop
- 1 Elite
- 1 Fast Attack
- 1 Heavy Support
So we're starting to get a picture of the things to come. It will be interesting. I think we'll find certain things included in a lot of armies, and probably a dawn of whole new 'counts as' stuff. Maybe Sisters of Battle with a high priestess (Wolf Lord, or Rune Priest), or sisters of Sigmar riding their giant battlecats (thundercav) into the fray accompanied by Sister tank hunters (Grey Hunters).
I think we'll end up seeing everyone and their goat combining options for a while. I can even go back and do 'inducted' IG with my Sisters again. I've got a feeling though, that using the Sisters 'counts as' SW or BA will still get me better results in the end.
so, start thinking away.
What are you guys gonna pull from the shelf to start using again?
So. Is every army going to have sanguinary priest in it now?. Uggg
ReplyDeleteThe limit on ICs is nice to hear about.
ReplyDeleteHaving different levels of ally is inherently unbalanced though, and will only hurt Xenos further compared to Imperials. From a fluff standpoint, many of the pairings don't even make sense. So why didn't they just make anyone allowed to ally with anyone at the 'Battle-Brother' level of cooperation?
well duh, cause they're more interested in the bottom line (selling minis & rule books) than in game balance, much less the loooooong established fluff (especially as Ward likes to retcon that at his whim & fancy)
DeleteSeriously? Hurt Xenos? Space Marines are Battle-Brothers for my Tau, which means I'm gonna be totin' along some Assault Termies. And if I can stick them in a Devilfish, SURPRISE! And I can take Eldar as well. Guided Hammerhead!
DeleteOr, if I only needed a Alliance of Convenience, I could grab some Grey Knights. Or Space Wolves. Or Blood Angels. Or nearly any other codex.
The 1 non IC HQ might kill allies for me if I want to use Eldar as allies :-) I can't remember if there is a non IC HQ worth taking...
ReplyDeleteOTOH, with flyers hitting the table, the IG might be farming out Hydra Bttys as allies for a LOT of people...
Neat I guess, waiting on the rulebook this weekend though, we'll see...
non special character IC for HQ I thought? Aside from IG, few armies have non-IC, HQ choices.
DeleteNot every 'Character' is an 'Independent Character'. Marbo, for instance, isn't. Most of the non-HQ named Ork characters aren't technically IC's either. Neither is Mephiston or the Sanguinor.
DeletePaladins for everybody!!!!
ReplyDelete(((shudder)))
At least they can't be taken with Fateweaver. :)
DeleteTake daemons as the parent codex with CSM for your allies. Looks like daemon princes are going to be popular again.
DeleteI told SandWyrm that today. Take your Fateweaver build, add in a Chaos Sorcerer for an HQ, some Thousand Sons for troops, and oblits for Heavys.
Deletefixes the Daemon shooty problem a little.
Prepare for FAQs to make auras Army X only rather than friendlies.
ReplyDeleteHopefully.
When I keep saying "if allies are broken and too stupid to use," this is what I've meant, the whole time.
DeleteThere's a few things to worry about beyond auras, but that's the worst of it.
What Kirby said is a very real possibility, especially for Fateweaver and Chalices of Blood.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, word is that Allies USE your FOC, not that they give you additional FOC slots. Please keep that in mind when trying to theorycraft over the next couple of days.
So far, I haven't seen any army lists that are even remotely close to breaking the game, unless you're comparing them purely to 5th edition lists (which of course are all now a little dated, either by virtue of not having the newer rules, such as rumored return of Eternal to Nids, or by virtue of not having allies added to their lists).
It looks like BA/SW combos are going to be everywhere. You know, since they're all like. cool Bro frat bothers and all.
ReplyDeleteand IG will be everyone's favorite little step brother.
Chaos Marines will not be found without Daemons, and vice versa.
all this is simply the dawn of the 'new' 40K army. Now you buy a whole faction, and parts of other factions to mix/match in. I must say, GW does have a good idea on how to take more lunch money from more people. Gotta move that product, and raise prices too.
and I agree with Kirby. I really hope auras only affect the army of origin. we'll see.
So the 5th Edition money grab was Vehicles. Now it's 3 things: Flyers, Terrain, and Allies. What's going to be left to grab with for the next edition?
DeleteHow about a sense of humor. ;)
DeleteIf you mean Kirby laughing his way into retirement, I see your point. :)
DeleteDark Eldar allying with anyone? Necrons allied to anybody? UGH!
ReplyDeleteDark Eldar actively intervened to save an Eldar Craftworld in the last Codex, they're not mindless like Khorne Berzerkers or Nids after all. And Necrons got totally altered in the last book, they're now a crafty political empire. Imagine that an allied Necron unit might be manipulating their allies into achieving a needed goal, but show up on the field to make sure it gets done, or to swoop in and steal the valuable item at the end, etc. I can see a case for either making certain choices, especially Dark Eldar raiding with a group of CSM or the like.
DeletePersonally, I've got my AoBR Orks, which will show up in my Chaos Spare Marine list as either Freebooters or Blood Axes (I haven't decided on a paint scheme, I've got 2 full AoBR boxes sitting in a closet lol), Daemons that obviously will pair with my CSM, and then a plan to buy (well looks like GW's manipulation is working) a dark eldar HQ and troop unit, as I have a box of reaver jetbikes lying around that I want to put on the table. Primarily, I'll either be using allies for fluff reasons (eventually, when i have a billion dollars to waste, ill dump my money into traitor guard for my CSM, as well as tyrant's legion for my Astral claws, and then there's my shelf full of useless daemons because their book doesn't work for mono-nurgle most of the time) or to put new models on the table. I'll probably pick up a few necrons to use with various armies, something I wouldn't have done simply because I didn't feel like starting crons as my next army. Hell, I might even give some eldar a whirl.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I really want to do is pick up a storm raven, pair it with a Blood Angels librarian and a unit of assault marines, and a furioso dreadnought, put them all together, paint them as lamenters, and run them with my astral claws.
All I'm left NOT wanting to play with are Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle. Its funny, I'd originally considered using the GK book to represent my Tyrant's Legion, since it was the only book that allowed me to mix MEQ and GEQ sufficiently. Allies rules fixed that. I had also been considering using the BA book because I wanted to include Lamenters elements in my list and thought the SM book didn't offer enough of a siege feel when compared to the Astral Claws fluff. Now, I can take Storm Talons, include an allied Stormraven, and fill out the rest as needed. Hell, the only thing better would be a way to bring my corpse takers with servitors, IA style :D.
and I think that's exactly what GW's strategy with 6th ed is: Get people to buy more stuff, and mark up prices a bit more to see if we keep buying. I think we're going to see a lot more 'counts as' armies out there, and more combinations that aren't fluff-tastic. GW doesn't care about the fluff, they want to sell more product.
DeleteThey don't need to balance codexes if everyone can borrow from everyone else.
I'm just glad that I can use my CSM with Daemons and Orks (since those are the models I have ready to go) while I wait for the new book, its like my book got a bunch of new options (and Ork Mercs and summoned daemons are both fluffy after all) without having to get a new book. Hell, if CSM didn't get an update at all, I'd still be happy. Of course, I prefer they do, haha.
DeleteGet outta here Farmpunk! A corporation is developing a product with the intent on selling it!?!?! And then using it to extend the sales of its other products?!?!? What kind of devious marketing tactics is this?!?!
DeleteAnd how can you declare they don't care about fluff? Name me another wargame manufacturer that has a separate arm dedicated purely to producing fiction set in the game worlds? Thought so.
For one moment, consider the 80%+ of hobbiest who have never even played in a tournament. They play against 3-4 different players regularly, and probably get to go to a local GW for games a few times a year. For these casual players, allies brings a unlimited amount of variation to thier games, despite the lack of actual people to play against which is where tournament gamers get thier variation.
Ultimately, unless they state players over six foot can only play with xyz armies, and players under can only play with zxy armies, then there is always a level playing field as every player has the option to pick whatever they want. GK's + IG turns out to be the best combo, then every tourney player who only wants to play to be competitive can pick this list. Or, be brave, break the mould, and come up with some new tactics. I can guarentee you one thing, and thats with such a variance in army selection, new lists and tactics will be emerging for many, many years to come.
Good work GW in looking to expand the playing experience of your dedicated fan base.
and I think GW is doing a great job getting more people to buy more stuff, and having the Dev team crank out rules that allow a wide array of combinations. I do give GW kudos on that. Their profit margins will be good this year, and their price increases will make the profit sheets the investors see look really good.
Deletein the end, GW sells stuff. be it widgets, or boxes of plastic. they sell stuff.
yes, they have a completely different arm to sell people fluff books. That still doesn't mean the right hand talks to the left hand, or to the legs.
GW also has forgeworld, they write fluff too. Matt Ward wrote some fluff up in the GK codex.
the fluff can, and will change. like in the new edition, Tau are now buddies with the Marines, whereas before they were dirty xenos scum. changed fluff. sell more widgets. profit.
and yes. everyone has the right now to go out and buy whatever they want to. Players can combine to their hearts content. Especially if you're Imperial Marines, or Imperial guard.
now I can add some IG into my GK or SoB again without hearing people bitch about how broken induction is. because now everyone can do it.
i think that there are definate changes in the rules that were pushed for from a sales aspect much more than from a 'lets make a cool game' aspect. or even from a fluff aspect. I fell those are happy coincidences, and people will see the associations and cool stuff they want to see.
Gw is in the business of selling boxes of plastic. the rules and fluff books are there to support their sales. I think sales are driving the decisions. Go talk to a FLGS owner you know well. or go read what Loquacious is posting over on HoP. She's a Game Store owner. She writes a great series about being a game store owner, and how GW is screwing them.
http://www.houseofpaincakes.com/2012/06/musings-of-game-store-owner-it-goes.html
give Loq a read.
GW sells widgets. I have no problem with that. it's the methods I object to. and climbing prices.
This whole allying thing will clearly indicate to everyone the "WAAC" players from the "real players"... the WAAC will be the ones that cobble together the most unlikely combination of units in order to make some obscure but game breaking combination, whilst everyone else will simply use this as a way of being able to make use of models that they may have sitting on a shelf, or because they like the idea of actually using daemons with their chaos, or some space marines as part of their imperial guard force... much how the background ACTUALLY describes things.
ReplyDeleteAgreed
DeleteThere needs to be a corollary to Godwin's Law specifically for miniature gaming. If anyone brings up the acronym: WAAC, the thread is immediacy over. Because at that point the conversation is going to go into the all to familiar competitive vs not diatribes that we all know and hate.
DeleteYeah, because only Hitler would ally his Eldar with Black Templars...
Delete(ducking)
Throwing a giant chair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteJust kidding. I am actually laughing right now!!!!
The allies rules are making me nostalgic, My first imperial guard were used as mercenaries for my Blood Axe orks back in the day.
ReplyDeleteColKG