In reply to Hulksmash's comment to my last post.
Hulksmash Said:
Ya know. I'm generally not like this but feel I need to type it. I was going to type up a long and detailed post but realized halfway thru that nothing I say is going to influence you Sandwyrm. You're very obviously unhappy with GW and 40k. You have a view of the game and community that I, simply, find hard to understand. My suggestion? Walk away. From the books, rules, forums, the whole bit. Give yourself a few months 100% away from 40k. Play FoW which you obviously love. Look at it again once it's settled out and if you still don't like it don't sweat it.
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What you've been doing for the last year only serves to further divide the community instead of enhancing or healing it so go play a game you love and that you can provide a positive influence on. You're a good dude but the constant whiney tone of your posts and generally negativity annoy the hell out of me. Just my two cents.
Sandwyrm's Reply:
So if I didn't point out the fail, then everything would be just great? The game wouldn't suck for Xenos, GW's prices would be reasonable, and the player base wouldn't be shrinking? Really? Fantasy doesn't seem to need my help dying around here. Can't blame that on Sandwyrm. I just try and point out the trends I see and keep folks from making bad assumptions. I'm also hoping that folks will come to expect more for their money. It's the only way we'll get meaningful change from GW. By not giving them money unless they offer us more value than they have been.
Besides, nobody is forced to listen to me if they don't want to. If you see my name at the top of the post, nobody is forcing you to click on it. Though I do find it interesting how many folks come to listen regardless, and then complain when I talk about other stuff than 40K. Like I'm not allowed to enjoy other games or compare them at all to 40K. Or attempt to do what GW won't and create my own game that's well-designed and balanced. For that I got compared to Hitler by a 'friend'. Hitler? Really? Seems pretty harsh to me for trying to help out a community I love by doing unpaid work.
Why do I continue to talk about 40K anyhow? Ever think about that? We don't have advertisers, so we're not chasing hits; and nobody ever sends us free stuff. Hmmnnn... must be love. After all, 40K has been part of my life, off and on, for oh... 23 years now. Fantasy too. I complain and criticize because I care dammit. If someone was taking something or someone you've loved and contributed to for 20 years and slowly destroying it for profit, you'd be a little cranky too. Especially when I can remember how DAMN GOOD a company GW used to be in the late 80's and early 90's. What Battlefront and Privateer are now, they were back then. The most professional company in the business by far. With the best products on the market.
How many hours have I spend assembling, painting, and playing 40K and Fantasy over the years? How much money have I spent? God knows. But I think that investment gives my a right to speak up when it's invalidated on a regular basis in the name of corporate profits. Battlefront didn't make me go out and buy crap-loads of new stuff to keep playing competitively when Flames of War was updated. So why should GW? Just to keep this mindless beast of a company fed? We, the players, should expect better from them. If they expect us to pay more for less, then I'm going to call them on it.
So no, I'm not going anywhere. When I have something interesting to say, I'll post. When I don't, I won't. That's what I always do. Ignore me if you like. But don't blame the messenger when someone else is the one damaging the hobby.
I think The Dude said it best:
ReplyDelete"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
Overall I find the hand wringing and woohooing a little premature. We haven't even seen a game played yet and have no experience in how the rules will interact.
There's always going to be bits we'll like and dislike since we can't all agree on what is best for the game we love. Proclaiming how it's going to totally wreck the game or completely balance the game seems far fetched on both accounts.
That's a very reasonable way to put it Krisken.
DeleteI'll only counter by saying that history CAN be a guide. If something tends to happen a certain way over and over again, you can be forgiven if you think that it might happen that way again.
I don't know the specifics of 6th Edition yet. The rumors about the non-(flyer/fortification/allies/mission) rules make them seem pretty reasonable. I even expect it to be a fun casual game if you can afford to make the transition and don't mind the imbalances between the factions. There's a reason I sold my Guard and kept my Angels. :)
But can we expect 6th to form a good basis for organized competitive play in the same way that 5th did? Well, I don't have good feelings about that, and I've told everyone why. Can it be bandaged up and made to work? Maybe, but it's not going to be easy or give us the same universal experience as 5th did.
Think Hulksmash is referring more to your tone and approach as opposed to anything substantive. For a while I stopped visiting the Back40k entirely although you have had some other authors pop up who made it worth reading. Ever since your time at NOVA you have been miserable with the game, think Hulk is right. Take a break play and focus on something you enjoy, when all you do is focus on the negative you quickly become ignored.
ReplyDeleteMy issue isn't that you point out things that annoy you or bother you. It's everyones right. It's the pure joy you seem to take in tearing down GW and the tone in which you post. You treat GW like a woman you caught in bed with your best friend but are still in love with.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair I've avoided probably 90% of your posts for the last 6 months. Generally if I see your name on a 40k article I don't click. I did this time to see if, just maybe, you'd manage to crawl out of your gw hate pool. And then I found the same incorrect starting point leading to the same incorrect statements with the usual anger. And to make it worse now you're doing it without any confirmation of how the rules interact.
I'd say walk away dude. This is an abusive relationship for you and I think you need to walk. I think you'll be a happier person in gaming if you do. Leave the 40k stuff to the others on the blog who enjoy and write about games you enjoy. Generate excitement for your chosen games and stop crapping all games others enjoy. The wargaming hobby is a pretty small community, why influx negative feelings into it?
I'll consider the tone of my posts more carefully in the future. But 'walking away' sounds a lot to me like 'shut up and go away'.
DeleteWell, no. I won't.
Why? Because I've been very happy these last several months. Playing Flames once or twice a week and writing my own 28mm game. Happier than I've been in years, as a matter of fact. Plus, I enjoy blogging. It's as much of a hobby for me as painting minis or playing games. I'm even enjoying this conversation right now, as odd as that may seem to you.
What's been disturbing to me is the reaction to my (IMO) playful posts on the 6th Ed rumors. To me, a lot of folks seem to have too many of their hopes and dreams wrapped up in this product. Relax guys. It's just a game!
Hence, I'm being labeled as trying to 'destroy' or carry out a vendetta. When I really have, I feel, a realistic view of 6th. It's not going to destroy the hobby or sink GW. They'll continue to tread water for a few years yet. If nothing else, the Hobbit money will ensure that. But I do have concerns that certain things about the new edition will damage the competitive community that I've put a LOT of time into helping grow. And you know, that makes me sad. A bit cranky too. Sorry, but it does.
Might I be wrong? Yeah, sure. I could be. The more I/We talk about the issues I've raised, the more info comes out and the more reasonable 6th seems. That's part of why I've been talking about it!
Plus, it's not all fun and roses for those who have limited hobby budgets. I had my own budget crunch last fall around NOVA and I had to really, really, look hard at what I was getting for my money. And the answer was: Not much. MVB has done a great job trying to run as balanced an event as possible. But NOVA showed me just how ridiculous the terrain had to be to compensate for the failings of the 40K rules. It was sobering. Really sobering.
Then, once it was over, I realized that I wouldn't be able to get another chance to do better with the army I'd poured thousands of dollars and hours into building. Because 6th was gonna come along and upset the balance, forcing me to totally re-build the army and play in ways that aren't fun for me. Having just finished that army, it was sobering to realize just how temporary that achievement was... by design.
So, even if 6th is perfect in every way, it's hard for me to justify spending as much money as I used to. Even though my finances are better now, I've had a chance to sample the competition and... they're just a better value. I can have more fun and variety for less money. Being something of an idealist, I want that for 40K too. Because I still love the fluff and the community.
I think Sandwyrm has gained clarity and has a greater understanding of the game. If he wants to critique it, he should go ahead and do so.
ReplyDeleteI think it was quite good of Hulksmash to give an honest comment to your posts but I also think he opened the door for you to justify and solidly your stance on the direction of 40k and it's current stance.
ReplyDeleteI also think that anywhere you go on the Internet you will find discontent with the way things are and the state of both the game and the culture associated with it these days.
For me, I love the fluff, I love the models but I fucking hate the company and am to happy with the current ruleset and what seems to be a decent portion of the newly rumored rules. I have been playing on and off since the end of 2nd edition and I am equally tired of getting fucked in the ass like a stranger by the retarded cost of the game AND the power play that seems to be every newly released codex.
I'm quite excited to play something new but it seems the new edition is just as much a sales drive as it is a fresh take on the rules. Even white dwarf is fucked beyond belief these days with barely anything of use(I have purchased the two most recent ones and have barely been able to read them).
Then there's the price issue for us Aussies. I started buying Forgeworld because the quality is higher and the price is almost the same as the plastic kits are in store for the most part.
Keep posting, I like what you have to say.
I was tapping away there and the iPad stooged me a bunch of times, sorry for the shiftiness of my post.
DeleteIt kind of seems like you proved his point with this attacking rant to be honest.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Hulksmash. Your negativity is over-the-top, and it does not accurately represent any part of the community that I have experienced.
ReplyDeleteI have considered ceasing to follow Back40k because this has been going on for so long. I have been reading posts from other authors, but then your negativity shows up in the comments.
Obviously, I believe that you have a right to form your own opinions and speak about them. It just becomes taxing to follow.
Try to relax a little bit and enjoy life.
this echos my opinion also. i attribute my rise to glory (or at least decent placings at tournaments) to Sandwyrm and his teachings on how to play guard early on in 5th, so for me it has been very sad to see him so bitter about the whole thing.
DeleteSandwyrm,
ReplyDeleteI have mad love for you, but since the drive back from Nova it has been this way. We have talked about this in the past, but it doesn't seem to sink in. You have great influence across the internet. With great power comes great responsibility. Uncle ben said that to peter parker became spider man. You can do so much good or bad to the community. Your choice.
I have also used the leaky faucet story before where there may be an issue, buy no one likes the leaky faucet. I am not saying that you don't have valuable points, and we could ignore you, but I don't want to. I keep reading your posts because I have hope that something will be different. My oldest son is this way. He is right almost all the time but it's the way he carries himself and communicates that makes most things his fault to other people. I believe analytical people with high intelligence can often have this issue. This is a time of excitement for a majority of the community. When someone on continually is tearing it down, it does get difficult to stomach.
Sincerely,
Spauatyrine
Spag, you're fine with the state of 40K, and there's nothing wrong with that. Have fun!
DeleteBut there is, if not a majority, then at least a significant minority of players who find some comfort in hearing the dissenting view. Not everyone is playing Space Wolves and Grey Knights, where they feel like they got a good value for the money and time that they've spent on the hobby.
My Godwin's law comment was directed at oink. Hope that wasn't the Hitler reference you where referring too.
ReplyDeleteDeep breaths man. It will be OK.
No, it wasn't aimed at you. That happened back when I posted some stuff from M42. I don't even think the person who said it remembers saying it.
DeleteChange only comes about with dissent. If Sandwyrm is unhappy with the direction GW is taking, it's his duty as a consumer to make that known. I understand and empathize with his sentiments, however abrasively put, they've been well spoken and founded in reason.
ReplyDeleteBy turning the other cheek and pretending the situation will improve because that would be the polite course of action is the reason GW has been able to abuse its costumers for this long.
I agree with his comments and how they're worded, bitter as they are, because that's how I'd want them said. This is the internet, if you don't agree, click elsewhere.
Human's are resistant to change because we are human. Change only comes about with dissent? I am not sure I completely agree with that. Are you saying that change never comes from seeing how to improve things?
DeleteDissention breeds rebellion. In the imperiam there can be no dissention. That just leads to Chaos. The very idea of the fluff of a lot of the novels and game we are so intrigued with.
People that care will say something.
We live in a nation FOUNDED on dissent, and yet in our great nation, we treat dissent like it is treason.
DeleteDissent is protected by the 1st amendment.
This isn't a dissenting opinion though. It's just random grumbling for the sake of grumbling. It's like an old man complaining about "kids these days". It's not logical at all or based on reason. Look, the article that spawned this was written was railing against the potential impact for as of yet unconfirmed rules and a system that conclusions can't be drawn about. It's clear that there is a chip on the shoulder about GW. We get it. :p One is free to express that opinion. However, it really shouldn't be a surprise that after a while, people get tired of listening to old people grumble about things that are irrelevant and don't make any sense.... people that are also free to express their opinions on that matter as well. In this case, what prompted this article was someone ultimately trying to deliver a friendly message about moving on rather than continuously trying to drag the community down for what amounts to a bad attitude. It's an intervention moment, not a criticism. If I started a BLOG all about how Flames of War sucks, I'm sure the sentiment would be shared.
DeleteSell your stuff. Move on. Take your own advice, IT'S A GAME.
Said my piece. :)
Gonna go out on a limb here guys. Its a GAME.
ReplyDeleteI'm gettin' all teary here. We still have a day to go to 6th....
ReplyDelete