That' what it felt like at Nova this year. While my 5th edition Grey Knight list was terribly difficult to beat. In fact I never actually lost at a tournament with it......
What I have realized that after playing at Nova, The Midwest Massacre GT, and a dozen or so practice pick up games is that I didn't get the practice needed to really "see" 6th edition. In other words I made what I thought would be a good 6th edition list based upon what I saw in 5th. In fact I really only played 12 to 15 games of 6th edition before the Nova anyways.
So I looked
going against some of the best competition on the planet. Even though I did ...........O.K. I am not happy with my placing in the GT and the Invitational.
What I didn't do is what I preach when helping others with their lists and their game play.
I didn't practice enough and get my mind around how the game changed. I took my own paradigm of what 40k was and put in a few good things from 6th edition to make my 5th edition list try and work.
This is was my list from 5th at Nova:Rune Priest-lightning and jaws
Battle Leader-frost blade
Thunderwolf Lord-2+/3++ wolf claw
4 thunderwolves-SS and TH/ 1 SS, 1 bp&ccw, 1 bp &ccw & melta bomb
7 GH with banner, melta-rhino
6 GH with banner, melta-rhino
6 GH with melta-rhino
5 GH with melta-drop pod
5 GH on foot with flamer
5 Wolfscouts meltagun
Wolfguard-2 combi melta fist, 1 combi melta, 1 cyclone terminator, 1 combi melta wolfclaw
3 longfang packs, 4 x ML, 2 Plasma cannon 2 ML, 3 multi melta with Rhino
An unorthodox list but one that has Thunderwolf awesomeness, 5 troops, good shooting, 2 distraction units, etc. This worked great in 5th edition and very seldom lost to anything.
At Nova 2011 I lost to Nick Nanavati and his grey knights and adam tricola and DE which I had never seen hellions before. I was already playing my grey knights but liked the SW better. Grey knights just did it better.
Here is my list from Nova 2012:
Coteaz
Xenos Inquisitor-psyker, psycho and rad grenades
2x10 man strike squad with psybolt, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer
1 3 man acolyte in razorback with psybolts
7 psyker and 3 plasma guns in Chimera
3 psyflemen dreads
Primaris Psyker
10 man vet squad 3xplasma with SGT plasma pistol in chimera
10 man ver squad with 3x melta and demolitions
Vendetta
Griffon Siege Mortar
Marbo
I ended up 8th in the GT which is good, but my finish on the invitational was a bummer at 9th.
So looking at the lists they are basically similar lists with different models and less ability to survive in 6th. As the game evolves and this edition changes my list I am not testing looks like this:
Coteaz
3x10 man strike squad with psybolt, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer
2 dreadnights with heavy incinerators
Destroyer Lord with Scythe, res orb, and weave
6 wraiths with 3 whip coils
2 5 man warriors with night scythes
1 annihilation barge
Much different. Less units. 2 flyers and a barge, mass firepower in larger units to torrent down units instead of 5 or 6 guys shooting at a unit. This list is plain scary to me and I would not want to face it.
What are your thoughts about the evolution of 6th?
Has your game and strategy changed?
Do you see your self moving towards the zombie Apocalypse where you need hoards of dudes on the table?
I don't want to go hoard. It's boring to me. The same as 6 units of Grey Hunters with the same thing in them.
So is the problem that you did not practice with your list enough to know how to make it work or that you did not practice with your list enough to know it did not work.
ReplyDeleteI personal would blame GW. With a good balance game you should not have to throw out half your army to be competitive.
I am looking forward to the new hordes. Once they sort out that plague zombies can be fielded in squads larger than 10 models, I want Typhus leading three squads of thirty. It they rule that you can only take ten in a squad I will go back to the drawing board.
ReplyDeleteColKG
It most certainly has changed for me. I'm still trying to find a balance between durability, shooting, and close combat punch. I love IG's ability to wipe up foot lists, but they are incredibly susceptible to powerhouse close combat. I can't think of how to consistently fix the problem... though I keep trying.
ReplyDeleteRight now I'm having a hard time getting away from a blob squad with Space Wolves. Long Fangs are awesome with Aegis. Blobs can be very durable. But then there's the issue of close combat.
Anyway, I need more practice too! So, hey, Aaron, when we going to play again :-)
Anytime you we can. I tried the blobs and just don't like them. I am now trying the list above which I used today very effectively.
Delete"The difference is what wins in table quarters and what wins at pick up games or normal games."
I Believe the table quarter will go away from tournaments. The east coast guys who are near nova obviously played the scenarios quite a bit and are smart enough to know that. If you take out table quarters then some all foot lists that don't have the ability to move will suffer.
6th? 6th opened up the tyranid codex like nothing else. Very little got worse, and probably a solid 85% got better, to greater or lesser degrees.
ReplyDeleteDE are in a similar boat. Overwatch is a pain when you look at the Wych statline, but defensive grenades are cheap as dirt for "real" units. Archon's/Incubi are really shining as combat nasties with high-initiative AP2 weapons.
Truth is I haven't had to change my lists much. My DE use allies, which is fun, and one core troop has changed (but for the same reasons it would have benefited me to do so in 5th). Nids... the list I was using just got better. I've thrown in some new things because they're good again, and they're fun.
99% of the lists that "had to change" were Imperial mech-lists, because 3 guys in a decent transport can't win you the game anymore. Personally I think this is a good thing, because overall it's going to mean waaaaay more variety on the board.
Still waiting to see someone locally play the psychic choir the way it should be.
ReplyDelete4 of 5 tervigons and gargoyles and lots of stuff on the board.
Won't be me, I don't think it is very competitive. To easy to shut down, and doesn't actually do much but look scary. IMO
Delete^Pretty much trooth.
DeleteWant to beat that? Shoot Tervigons. Even bolters will cause wounds. Terv's go, gaunts die in droves (especially when you've min maxed every single brood on the table).
If we're talking about putting more powers on the table, you should look at Zoanthropes. For the cost of a Tervigon I can get 3 casters, which can at least target different things for maledictions/blessings.
PS - GW loves your build, as you'll need 7+ boxes of termagaunts that aren't accounted for in your points... haha.
See whilst hordes may not be to your liking, maybe look at integrating in 2 blobs and then melding in other elements to get a sort of grading in the units? As to the Tervigon comments it's always important to remember that1 Tervigon with Catalyst+Onslaugt is 190pts and well that's 38 termgants. I'm actually swinging back to attitudes I had in 3rd (I wasn't very good then but regardless) where I ran in my own Nids 100 termgants in every game, cheap solid, now with prime support to keep them from legging it yeah. I need games though so newbie at 6th still heh.
DeleteYeah, actually, the psychic choir with Parasite and gargoyles is pretty awesome. The list I ran early on was too slow. But if you have, say, 3 Tervigons, a Swarmlord, a load of Zoanthropes and about 60 gargoyles with a Parasite, that list provides the necessary stagger element... or in other words, the gargoyles can tie up junk, thereby allowing the fatties to get in range. I've only tried the list a couple times, however. So it's still a lot of theory, for me anyway.
ReplyDeleteThe game lends itself to blob shooty with overwatch being what it is. Maybe a use of more tempalte weapons from speeders or even Whirlwinds is in order....
ReplyDelete