SandWyrm:
Here's Protem's summary of his 'Ard Boyz games at Saltire. Including how he killed 5 Land Raiders with a Foot-Marine list.
Protem:
My List
HQ (Librarian) 175
Librarian (100), vortex (0), might of the ancients (0), epistolary (50), terminator armour (25)
HQ (Librarian) 125
Librarian (100), terminator armour (25), null zone (0), vortex (0)
ELITE (Terminator Assault Squad) 400
Terminator Assault Squad (200), additional (40) x 5, thunder hammers/storm shields (0) x 5
ELITE (Terminator Squad) 460
Terminator Squad (200), additional (40) x 5, assault cannon (30), cyclone launcher (30)
ELITE (Venerable Dreadnought) 200
Venerable Dreadnought (165), twin autocannon (10) x 2, extra armour (15)
TROOP (Tactical Squad) 205
Tactical Squad (90), additional (16) x 5, flamer (0), lascannon (10), power fist (25)
TROOP (Tactical Squad) 200
Tactical Squad (90), additional (16) x 5, melta gun (5), multi melta (0), power fist (25)
TROOP (Tactical Squad) 195
Tactical Squad (90), additional (16) x 5, melta gun (5), plasma cannon (5), power weapon (15)
TROOP (Tactical Squad) 190
Tactical Squad (90), additional (16) x 5, melta gun (5), missile auncher (0), power weapon (15)
FAST ATTACK (Attack Bike) 50
Attack Bike (40), multi-melta (10)
FAST ATTACK (Attack Bike) 50
Attack Bike (40), multi-melta (10)
FAST ATTACK (Attack Bike) 50
Attack Bike (40), multi-melta (10)
HEAVY SUPPORT (Thunderfire Cannon) 100
Thunderfire Cannon (100)
HEAVY SUPPORT (Thunderfire Cannon) 100
Thunderfire Cannon (100)
Game 1 vs Bugs
Result: Major victory for me.
Game 2 vs Blood Angels
His entire army was pretty much only about 30 models, but that included dante, the sanguinor, and some sanguinary guard that dropped into my back field and killed nearly half my army. Even that wasn't enough for him and i ended up beating him down eventually. He was left with a vindicator and 4 tac marines against my 20 models.
Result: Major victory for me.
Game 3 vs Inquisition
Result: Major victory for me.
I ended up killing around 6000VP throughout the day while giving up around 4500. Not too bad.
But apparently people want to know about how to kill land raiders. Here it goes:
Deployment
He had his 7 raiders spread out pretty evenly across the table, and until later in the game none of them ever really moved.
My thunderfires were setup in cover, along with my lascannon and missile squads on the middle line.
My bikes were behind a building on the left flank, and my dread in reserve as he can't hurt a land raider.
My assault terms were setup on the right third line with a fist/melta/multimelta behind them. My shooty terms and the last tac squad were next to each other on the left third line.
I will note that until things got out of tanks, the thunderfires just kept shooting the 'difficult terrain' shot, and thanks to his deployment i was hitting 2 at a time with scatters. it didn't matter, but it kept him worried about moving for some reason.
TURN 1 (I seized the initiative)
I turbo boosted all of the bikes up the left flank as far as I could to bait him, but I was hoping at least one would live.
The missile and lascannon squads stood in cover, and the thunderfires, obviously stood still (this detail will not change until a cannon dies in the last turn).
Everyone else moved forward, with only the shooty terms not running. I was able to take out a single lascannon on one raider.
HIM:
Nothing moved aside from some pivots.
He killed two bikes, but thanks to turbo boost saves it took half his shots to do it. A couple of assault terms died.
TURN 2
ME:
My remaining attack bike moved to about 2" away from his far left raider, and failed to hit. I assaulted out of spite.
Everyone else did the same thing they did last turn, with shooty terms hurting another raider. My missile tac squad starts moving up the middle to get their melta into fun range.
HIM:
Killed my attack bike and a handful more models, mostly in the assault terms.
TURN 3
ME:
Finally, I'm close enough to start having fun. The assault terms and their librarian split up and went towards separate raiders. At this point, all I had were claws left, so they were there to provide cover for the melta unit. The librarians both vortexed, with one of them popping the center raider and the other missing. The librarian that popped the raider assaulted the knights that got out and ended up surviving, and killing a couple.
All my other units ended up stunning or killing weapons off of 2-3 other raiders, while the melta squad popped the right-most raider, and the claws ended up assaulting and killing the survivors.
HIM:
A handful more marines die, including the librarian in with the knights. He moves a raider around a building to confront the melta squad on my right.
TURN 4
ME:
The melta squad is thrilled that he moved into half range of both the gun and the multi, and proceed to slag it with orgasmic enthusiasm.
The shooty terms are now close enough to threaten 3 raiders, and end up popping stern's with the assault cannon.
My dread arrives and starts engaging some of the units that have been forced out of tanks.
HIM:
He finishes off a tac squad with stern and a surviving knight from the librarian combat. both consolidate behind a raider to hide.
TURN 5 & 6
These blurred together for me as each one took about 5 minutes.
My melta squad on the right finishes off their third raider with the melta gun and assaults the knights in it. The last claw had moved to the wrong side of the raider in the hopes of engaging them there.
The shooty terms shoot and assault the raider that killed my last bike a while ago, but only end up immobilizing it and taking out some weapons. They also ended up shooting stern dead.
My support units continue to piss off the same raider that haven't killed.
My dread ends up killing the last knight from the earlier assaults.
So in the end, my melta squad totally owned an entire flank on their own. The shooty terms took out a raider, along with one librarian. The two raiders he had left were gunless and immobilized, and a 7th turn probably would have seen him tabled.
I'd like to note that the terrain was all classified in unusual ways by the TOs for some reason, and they wouldn't tell me why. All area terrain was declared to be LOS blocking, which was slightly annoying for me in the first two games, but totally screwed my opponent in the last game as one set of trees both bisected the field for his firing lines, but also meant my support units couldn't really be engaged very easily. that said, i don't think it was a game changer.
Like I said with my post in the other thread, I think you got lucky with a lot of your rolls against those raiders. Though you're opponent could have played better. He should have been feeding you his cheap units to deny you shots on his raiders.
ReplyDeleteHe also let you walk shooty terminators and librarians across the board and assault him! He should have ignored the assault terminators and shot them instead. The assault terminators don't really threaten Land Raiders with their strength 8 hammers and can survive shooting a lot better than the standard terminators.
i agree a little bit, but 7 land raiders simply can't kill enough of me. plus, his 'cheap' units were nothing but a single inquisitor and 2 advisors each. his heaviest units were stern and 2 squads of grey knights. anything else would have been thunderfire food.
ReplyDeleteand i had 4 meltas hidden within 3 full tac squads in his face by turn 3. he couldn't kill enough marines to make sure the meltas died. i agree he shouldn't have bother with the assault terms, but the terrain ruling hurt him there.
and it wasn't that he didn't try to shoot me, i was just able to make sure i kept a couple of raiders out of arc or stunned enough that i was able to get too close for him to deal with.
having 70% of your army put into just 7 targets just doesn't work out long term. in fact, in his other games he wasn't able to kill much of those armies either. the only reason he did as well as he did was that he was able to park raiders on objectives in the first game and grabbed 2 objectives at a time with his 2 troop units at the end.
to clarify all of this, the land raider army was :
ReplyDeleteHQ
1 inquisitor lord with a handful of lackeys
captain stern
ELITE
2 inquisitors with 2 lackeys each
TROOPS
2 grey knight squads of 5
2 stormtrooper squads of 5
every unit that could take a raider as a transport did so (everyone but stern).
and he ended up killing :
10 terminators (1 shooty, 9 punchy)
2 full tactical squads
2 librarians
3 attack bikes
...and a handful of marines from my other squads
should he have moved more? probably, but 7 land raiders end up getting in their own way more than you'd think. and with all LOS blocking terrain, he wasn't able to support and overlap fire lines like he should have been able to. still, thanks to my terms and a sacrificial tac squad, my whole army had cover for as long as i needed it.
also, here's clarification on how his tanks died :
3 raiders went down to meltas at short range (all from one tac squad with melta/multi) - kind of what those things are built for, so not that lucky
1 to a vortex - took 2-3 tries
1 to an assault cannon - admittedly lucky, but it took 4 tries
all my other weapons ended up just disrupting the tanks long enough for me to get there. i ended up assaulting one with the shooty terms once, but they didn't do anything but damage it slightly.
i would have probably had more trouble with a 2 land raider army myself, but only because there would be other targets to engage. when i only have one type of thing to shoot at, it makes my job a ton easier.
2 Land Raiders by the non-melta fire is what I'd expect with good rolls. Not super above average, just a little above. It's defiantly proof that the list doesn't matter so much as the general ship. Your opponent shouldn't have let you get three raiders with one unit. Especially 1 unit on foot.
ReplyDeleteBTW the odds of single melta gun taking out three consecutive Land Raiders is around 1 in a 100 times. That's if your opponent is not doing anything to stop you.
I will have to say I'm QUITE interested in seing the list you brought, Steve. :D
ReplyDeletemy list can be seen in this thread :
ReplyDeletehttp://theback40k.blogspot.com/2010/05/ard-boyz-results-at-saltire.html#comments
Added to top of post.
ReplyDeleteI'm once again disappointed at the level of 'competition' in Ard Boyz.
ReplyDeletePure GKs? REALLY?
Ugh.
Especially since, from the sounds of it, he didn't even have the sense to castle up?
Congrats on doing it - it's just hard to imagine you wouldn't be able to do it to that guy again, especially if you used a less-Battleforce-y list yourself.