It's game two for the Angels, this time versus a Genestealer-heavy Nid build.
SandWyrm's List
HQ
225 Dante
250 Mephiston
Elites
165 2 x Sanguinary Priest w/Jump Pack (1 with Power Weapon)
Troops
230 Sanguinary Guard Squad w/2 x Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
230 Sanguinary Guard Squad w/2 x Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
230 Sanguinary Guard Squad w/2 x Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
230 Sanguinary Guard Squad w/2 x Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
230 Sanguinary Guard Squad w/2 x Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
Fast Attack
70 LandSpeeder w/Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta
70 LandSpeeder w/Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta
70 LandSpeeder w/Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta
Total: 2000 pts.
Pretty much the same as last time. I just swapped the Chapter Banner that had put me at 2015 points for a power weapon on one of the Sanguinary Priests.
I'll dub my opponent BroodDude, in honor of his Genestealer-heavy list.
BroodDude's List (From Memory)
HQSwarmlord w/3 Tyrant Guard, Various Upgrades
ElitesDeathleaper2 Zoanthropes2 Zoanthropes
Troops12 Genestealers w/Brood Lord, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
12 Genestealers w/Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
12 Genestealers w/Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
12 Genestealers w/Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
Heavy SupportTrygon Prime w/Regeneration
Deployment
We rolled up an Annihilation mission with a Dawn of War deployment. I won first turn, but decided to make BroodDude go first to see what he'd do.
He set up his Swarmlord + Tyrant Guards in the middle of the table, with a unit of Stealers to his left. The Zoeys would roll on turn 2, and his other 3 Genestealer squads would outflank. The Trygon was deep-striking, while Deathleaper would do his thing.
In retrospect, I'm not sure if the Tyrant Guards could have deployed, since they would be another HQ unit, and the mission only allows 1 HQ and 2 Troops to be deployed.
In return, I set up Mephiston + a Sanguinary Priest exactly 19" away from the Swarmlord, with a unit of Sanguinary Guard on either side. Dante would deep-strike, while the other 2 SG units and the speeders would roll on during the first turn.
I don't think that putting the Sang Priest out was legal either, but at least there was symmetry to our mistakes. :)
Turn 1
The Swarmlord and his guards moved up, running just one inch. It didn't matter though, as I only needed him to move 1" to let me jump on him during my turn.
The Genestealers moved up too, with the Zoeys coming onto the board to form a firing line in BroodDude's deployment zone. They're too far away to do anything this turn though.
When my turn comes, I move Mephiston (with attached Priest) and the 2 SG squads up to within 6" of the Swarmlord and open up with my Infernus Pistols and Angelus Bolters, plus Mephiston's Plasma Pistol and the Multi-Meltas on the Speeders. I kill 2 of the Tyrant Guards, put a wound on the the remaining guard and one on the Swarmlord.
I then swarm the Swarmlord and take him down, losing one SG in the process. One SG squad consolidates into a line to protect me from the nearby Stealers, while Mephiston and the rest hang back a bit.
My plan, BTW, is to keep my relatively small force in the middle of the table so that the outflanking Stealers will have to spend a couple of turns getting to me. The Speeders are ready to zoom up in their faces and block their movement so that I can control how many get to me at once.
Turn 1 Score: 2-0 SandWyrm
Turn 2
BroodDude rolls pretty lousy for reserves. Only one unit of Stealers comes on. The enter on my right behind their kin.
My blocking squad get assaulted by the nearer Stealers and BroodDude gets 3 rends. The other model failed a normal save. The last man stays salty though. Man, I can't afford to trade units like this!
On my turn I assault those Stealers and wipe them out, losing 3 SGs (including the sole survivor) in the process. The Speeders move up (smoke means he moved over 12") and shoot at the Zoeys. Dante drops in and lights up the Zoeys too, but only one dies.
Turn 2 Score: 3-1 SandWyrm
Turn 3
Mr. Trygon shows up. He and the Zoeys then light up Dante's squad, killing 2 SGs. This is the same Trygon model, BTW, that showed up on the BoLS pic of the day last week.
Stealers move up. BroodDude's other 2 Stealer units come on to my far left.
On my turn, I move 2 speeders up 12" towards the Stealers on my left and flame away 2 from the left squad and 3 from the right squad.
The Speeder I zoom up on the right kills just one bug.
I move 2 Squads of SGs towards the Zoeys. None die to shooting.
Now here's where I made a nasty mistake:
Dante moves up to shoot and assault the Trygon. By himself.
Now, before you start laughing at me, realize that I went into this with a Guard mindset. To the Tallarn 13th Armored Company, Trygons are just a minor nuisance. They pop up, plink some shots against my armor and then they die to meltas and lascannons. At most, I'll lose a 55 point Chimera before I finish him off with shooting.
But of course I'm not playing Guard here. :)
So Dante shoots his squad, but doesn't cause a wound. He then assaults, but the Trygon has a higher initiative (Or so we thought, it was only 4. My guys were 5 on the charge. Yay for stupid mistakes.).
Anyhow...
Dante loses his angel escort. While doing only one wound in return. I realize later that I should have killed the Priest and kept the SG with the power fist. Oh well. At least they stay put.
On the far end of the table, an SG squad kills the left-hand Zoey unit.
End of Turn 3
Turn 3 Score: 4-2 SandWyrm
Turn 4
Deathleaper comes on, but doesn't do much. The Stealers on my left whiff against the first speeder, while blowing up the 2nd.
To my right, the Stealers bypass my Speeder and charge the squad behind Dante. One SG survives to hold the line.
Dante, meanwhile watches the Sanguinary Priest go down and says "Eff That!". He uses his Hit and Run ability to leave combat with the Trygon, scooting back 9".
On my turn, Dante joins up with a fresh squad and steals Mephiston's Priest before charging into the Stealers. Mephiston moves too. He would have been here sooner, but Deathleaper lowered his leadership by 3 points at the start of the game. So no magical wings for him last turn.
Anyhow, Mephiston joins the brawl and the Stealers all go down pretty quick. They consolidate into the positions you see above. I'm hoping to draw the Trygon away with Mephiston. Only problem is that I consolidated the last Priest a little too far away to support him.
The Speeder on the left spins around and torches a Stealer squad real good. Ummnnn... what a smell!
End of Turn 4
Turn 4 Score: 5-3 SandWyrm
Turn 5
On his turn, BroodDude assaulted the Trygon into Mephiston, and by turning his base sideways, the lone powerfist too. Mephiston did manage to wound the Trygon, but failed the leadership test (Thanks Deathleaper) to insta-kill the beast with his force weapon. With deep chuckles, the Trygon then smashed both Mephiston and the powerfist SG.
Seeing this, Dante decided to ignore the Trygon and go for an easy kill on the last Zoey instead. Which he did.
Down in the left-middle of the table, the larger unit of Stealers moved up. In response I sent my last full unit of Sanguinary Guard down to try and kill them, but I left two standing. Pfft!
On the far left the Broodlord and his (now much smaller) squad of Stealers managed to wreck the speeder that flamed them.
And then the game ended.
Turn 5 Score: 6-6 Draw
Now, since Deathleaper decided to go back into reserve this turn, there was some question as to whether he counted as killed or not. We consulted the rulebook and Gibbs, but could find nothing definitive. So we rolled it off. BroodDude won the roll, so Deathleaper lived and we had a tie.
Conclusions
I think I'm starting to get a handle on how to play Sanguinary Guard. They're fine going in solo to kill Marine Tac squads and such, but if you're assaulting dedicated close-combat units, you'd better double up. Which means keeping the army together so that they can mutually support each other. You want to hit hard so that you deny counter-attacks and preserve as many SG models as possible.
I've also got a lot more respect for Trygons now, so I won't be charging in with single units on them either. :)
Mephiston's a monster, but he needs support against anything nasty too. Though I suspect I'll be dropping him for a regular Librarian and some honor guard for more competitive builds. Still, he's fun.
I also need to play the speeders a bit smarter. I didn't need to slow down and flame Stealers on the last turn as much as I needed to keep moving 12" (so he would need 6's to hit me) and blocking with them. That cost me some valuable kill points.
Still, the army is a blast to play!
Agreed, Sangy Guard are just lots of fun.
ReplyDeleteA comment not about the battle report (which was cool to read), but about the scenery -- I love it! What is that cog-thing in the middle? It looks great!
ReplyDeleteOk, here is what you're doing wrong.
ReplyDelete1, Mephiston is not an IC, and thus cannot join a squad nor be joined. He runs solo, it's how he rolls.
2. I would have put the SG squads against the genestealers more so than the speeders. keep 19" away and pepper them with bolter fire for a turn or two, draw them close, then speeder over and flame them and assault as needed.
3. ya, trygons are a beast in close combat, and require at least 10man squads to kill in close combat, or know that you can kill before he attacks. I would have put more melta fire into him from speeders.
4. tyrant guard could not have deployed, nor the priests. Also, his tactical folly for being so daring with the swarm lord. The SL gives huge bonus to outflanking, but he let him die before they even came in.
5. I would not have outflanked, you obviously had mobile superiority, I would have force you more to the middle. genestealers are generally not fast enough to be the greatest out flankers.
6. Trygon prime means he has shadow of the warp. You would be lucky to get any powers off on 3d6 with -3 to leadership. but were you using you're hood against the zoanthropes? cause I don't see them being any problem at all. I would have ignored them completely.
7. Death leaper in reserves counts as destroyed, just as any reserves do at the end of the game. check the mishap rules, I believe that's where it is located.
Looks like a fun game, both very elite lists. Not much on the table for 2k, many expensive units on both sides.
Surely Mephie is not an IC, but the Priest IS, so can join or leave squads at his will in the movement phase.
ReplyDeleteMephie is a unit.
Priest joins him.
Easy right?
Great read.
Venerable
IC cannot join single model units, so no, Mephi goes solo always. Also, units in reserve at the end of the game counts as destroyed. A single model unit cannot multiassault 2 units, so the trygon shouldn't have assaulted 2 miniatures. And sanginary guard seems a lot of fun to play. Keep the reports coming!
ReplyDeleteFun post - I enjoy seeing the Wing in action.
ReplyDeleteAny thoughts about how you're going to paint it up?
@JJ
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a GF9 terrain piece, but it might actually be from a Warmachine set. Here's a link with more pics anyhow:
http://www.gf9.com/terrain/gallery/album13
@TGM
1) I was told by someone else (cough... Steve) that it was legal for ICs to join Mephiston, but Lancelot is right. The BRB says ICs can't join single-model units.
2) Angelus Boltguns only shoot 12". So peppering the Stealers without being charged wasn't an option. Even Tac squad bolters can't move and fire 24" though. So you'd have to be perfectly placed before you fire, which isn't likely.
And hey, it's an assault list, not a gunline!
3) I did put melta fire into him, but the SGs in Dante's squad didn't hit, and Dante rolled a 1 to wound. In fact Dante didn't do much at all. Seems Mr. Chapter Master and his entourage can't be bothered to train with everyone else. Damn party boys!
In retrospect, I could probably have ignored the Stealers on my left and put multi-meltas in the Trygon. But it still wouldn't have helped enough to let me kill him.
4) Yep
5) Yep
6) The Zoeys would be a huge threat to my Guard armor, hence the attention they received. I was using my hood against everyone, but to work at my reduced leadership, I would have had to roll a 5 or 6 to his 1 or 2. So I only stopped one Zoey from firing the entire game.
One thing I didn't mention in the report is that I totally forgot Mephiston's re-roll hits and S10 powers, which would have helped against the Trygon quite a bit.
7) The mishap rules are similar, but only specifically address units that mishap. What about normal units that never arrive from reserve, or choose to return to reserve? The rules aren't clear about that.
Personally, I would have no problem ruling that Deathleaper was "killed" for the purposes of the mission. But I wasn't a disinterested judge, and Gibbs wasn't decisive about it. So we rolled it off for the lack of a better solution.
@Brent
Yep. But that deserves it's own post.
mea culpa on the mephiston thing.
ReplyDeletea couple of things in the report indicate that you still aren't doing assaults quite right with the priests. remember that in assault, they are a separate unit. it looks like you were allocating wounds against the squad to them, when they would have to be targeted separately.
i don't see anything to indicate that a unit in reserve is destroyed. this used to be the case in previous editions, but in a normal 5th game it won't come up aside from a mishap, which isn't exactly a clear precedent (voluntary vs. involuntary action). since the rules don't say it counts as destroyed, i don't see any reason it should. anything that important should be explicitly stated to be used.
@Steve
ReplyDeleteYep. You're right about the IC assault thing. I thought that if they joined a unit they were allocated with that unit.
I'll stumble into competency eventually. :)
soon you'll learn to punch people with the confidence of an experienced mugger; and you'll wonder why you never used that 'WS' thing before.
ReplyDeleteI thought the SG had 24" range like a storm bolter. Then never mind really on that part. But you did split your forces too much I feel, focus on one side first.
ReplyDeleteHow were the zoeys threatening your armor? they either get a single AP1 shot, or a small blast AP3. At most they could do three armor ignoring shots, and they still have to pass the test, roll to hit, and roll to wound. and its only 18" range.
Yep, a list like this, you'll have to learn all the little details of assaulting and ICs. They are good things to know.
7. Well, that is how things were for Ard boyz on me. I only got to turn 3, so my reserves counted as destroyed, hence costing me my placement.
They weren't threatening my armor. What I said was that they WOULD have been if I was playing Guard.
ReplyDeleteMindset thing.
Ya, need to learn to change that mind set. I can't say I haven't made a few follies with my new mech list though.
ReplyDeleteoh, have you thought about using a Vanguard veterans squad? add a storm shield/ power fist or two and you'll have a heavy hitting/survivable unit.
On the reserves/KP thing... as I understand it, anything still in reserves at the end of the game is "dead".
ReplyDeleteLooks like it was an interesting game, though. Pure Sanguard armies are similar in some ways to all Mech, I think... either you have the tools to deal with it easily, or you don't. Though without the immunity to small-arms fire...
Of course, most vehicles don't drop 12" away from you and say hello >.<
Meph, on the other hand... makes me shudder. Mainly because my Nid list just doesn't have a way to deal with him, and he generally gets to run around and be a ridiculously powerful beatstick with little to no repercussion. He, above all else, makes me wish for the return of points limits on Special Characters.
@TGM
ReplyDeleteYeah, I've thought about Vanguard Vets, Honor Guard also. But I haven't made any firm decisions. People talk about using VV with Dante, but they can't drop-assault with him attached to the squad. So what would be the point over HG?
Meph is nasty, but honestly my Mech Guard would just kill him with Meltas and Lascannons before he got to do very much.
Yeah, if you can spam 27 meltas within 6" of him at all times, you should be okay, but not everyone can do that... haha.
ReplyDeleteMy Dark Eldar have plenty of Lances to say hello to him.. and then agonisers to even the score to finish him off in CC if needed.
Tyranids, though. Can you shoot him? Not really. The only gun with the AP to hurt him is on Zoanthropes, and the world knows how that goes.
Close combat? Twin Swords are the best way to gibb him, but all he has to do is go for S10 (which he will get, despite Shadow) and he's popping 3-4 warriors easy. Little fear of retaliation after that. Go for the Sword/Whip to drop his ridiculous Initiative? Okay, well, look at that, Ld10 just like everything else.
Basically the only hope Nids have is Sword/Whip warriors with Toxin (50 points with no other upgrades). Even this unit is needing some luck to drop him before he (again) goes for S10 and swats them into oblivion.
I guess I could take the Swarmlord. That's about the only unit that can, without, stupid luck, deal with him. But wait. You have wings and are fleet. I am not. GG, kids. One character > entire Nid army.
Brooddude here! Thanks for the great game SandWyrm
ReplyDeletehere is my exact list you were very close
HQ
Hive Tyrant 2x sycthing talons w/regen
3 x Tyrant guard
Elites
Deathleaper
2 Zoanthropes
2 Zoanthropes
Troops
12 Genestealers w/Brood Lord, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
12 Genestealers w/Brood Lord, Toxin Sacs
12 Genestealers w/Toxin Sacs
12 Genestealers w/Toxin Sacs
Heavy Support
Trygon Prime w/Regeneration
Learned something new about the tyrant guard, for some reason I was thinking they were a retinue and all 1 unit. I will fix my lists.
Thanks for the dice of for the status of the Leaper, we did see the rule about units that suffer the deepstrike mishap but that was the only rule about units in reserve counting as destroyed, my argument was/is that rule only applies to units who suffer a misshap not all units left in reserve. The exact wording "..if the unit is unlucky enough to roll this result in turn 5 or later and then the game ends while it is still in reserve, it sadly counts as destroyed."
Mephistion is evil and was especially hard to kill, had the deathleaper not reduced his leadership by 3 it would have been even worse for me.
Again thanks for a nice friendly game.
Liking your paint scheme, LordOber! And nice batrep as always sandwyrm
ReplyDelete