So I don't normally find myself advocating much of the Tournament scene... although most of this is because of the type of hardcore "in it to win it" attitudes that are often associated with said level of gaming.
But we've all had our turn up on the soap box with that topic, so I'm going to skip that whole bit of it and say that I'm planning to go to a (hopefully) friendly W/L tournament up in Kokomo that's coming up. And I'll just not go in expecting to win anything, so I don't have to worry if I lose. Maybe I can not be all pent up the entire time that way. But I digress...
1500 points, and I've been tweaking my list. Here is the latest incarnation (and likely the closest to the end result). More playtesting, hopefully more converting (more on that later, in fact), and maybe even a batrep will be had... but until then, tear this apart!
HQ
Archon
Huskblade
Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, Soul Trap, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Elite
Incubi x5
Raider, Flickerfield
Troops
Warriors x10
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
Sybarite, Venom Blade
Raider
Warriors x10
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
Sybarite, Venom Blade
Raider
Wyches x10
Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider, Flickerfield
Fast Attack
Reavers x6
Heat Lance x2
Arena Champion, Power Weapon
Heavy Support
Ravager, Night Shield
Ravager, Night Shield
Void Raven Bomber
Night Shield, Flickerfield
Total: 1496 (or so)
And now the quick rundown of my thoughts on why I take what I take.
HQ (ie; why I like the Huskblade)
S3 is not terrible, in my eyes (if a 5+ was impossible to roll, no one would look twice at flickerfields), but it's definitely not great. In fact, when compared to 99% of Combat characters, it's downright bad. The True Kin have always dealt with this, and have always had ways around it. In ye olde days, it was the Agoniser. Now, we simply have a few more options.
The key with this weapon is that, yes, you still need a 5, or maybe even a 6 to wound. That said, you're probably rolling 3-4 dice to wound (depending on the charge, etc). That's at the very least a 50/50 chance, all other rolls being average. And you only need one. After that, barring a terrible roll vs your Ld score, this guy is now wounding any basic infantry on 2's. And still insta-gibbing any multi-wounder that he touches.
The Grenades are purely for the benefit of the Incubi, and I do wonder a bit if it would be better to drop them in favor of a Djin Blade. This would give me an extra 2 attacks (with a slight chance of stabbing myself in the back) against enemy infantry (with no need for the Huskblade's ability). Then again, that's a lot of points for multi-purpose roles. This guy is meant to cut off the head of your force, and then be a S6 monster (more if you're toting lots of IC's) against infantry... and those Incubi will be crying if they have to strike at I1.
Elite
Incubi.... pretty simple. They kill things in armor, give the Archon a ride, and can run with him, or split off to tackle their own unit (depending on what I'm looking at).
Troops
The core of any force - only having 3 squads makes me squirm a bit, but that's what I had to do to get the Void Raven in (more on that guy later). This still leaves me one aggressive unit (wyches), and a couple of versatile shooty-support units to hold back on my own objectives, or to maneuver around and cause general mayhem.
Fast Attack
I'm rather a fan of Reavers. They tote some nasty anti-tank gear, and an unprecedented 36" turbo boost to get where they need to go to use it. And they can cut off a few heads on the way thanks to their Bladevane attack. Now some may be asking "Why the power weapon?". It allows them to more effectively pop open a transport and charge the squad inside (instead of just getting shot by it the next turn). They're still toting a pair of weapons and drinkin' drugs, so they're not horrible in combat. You just have to be sure that the enemy you're dealing with is small enough to not bypass their 5+ save too many times.
Heavy Support
Lances, lances, and... yeah, more lances.
A pair of Ravagers are pretty standard for me, and since I can zip around the backfield and let loose with all three guns, I'm loving them even more. I like the night shields on these guys because it does wonders against Melta weapons (which tends to be a large percentage of enemy anti-tank power), and lets me skirt around the edges avoiding various other weapon types (while most anti-tank weaponry is around the 48" mark, there are still a few worrisome guns between 24-36").
And of course, the Void Raven. As of this writing, I have yet to actually play with this new toy... although a lot of its value speaks for itself. Dual lances with an extra point of Strength? Hard to hate on that. And the ability to drop a 3rd lance strike in blast form during the movement phase (yes, even if you went flat-out... which again is 36" here)? And it's pulling the heaviest armor (AV11 *and* closed topped!!) of the DE arsenal. Crazy, I know.
But if you're looking for stuff that's good at making enemy armor go away, then it's hard to find other tanks that do it as efficiently as these.
So, feel free to jump up and down screaming about how much this list sucks... but also keep in mind that if you don't give a good reason, I'm probably just going to ignore you and your intarweb powahrs.
Thats not that far off from my list I thought of. I made the wyches blood brides and dropped the reavers for more warriors.
ReplyDeleteHere is my thought though, the Incubi ride, give it night shields.
Reason is it is delivering close combat unit, so most likely turbo boosting up/ hugging terrain, a 5++ is worse than 4+ cover. Also, as it is the vehicle getting close, it is in the most danger of being rapid fired to death. Night shields effectively stop rapid fire guns.
Also, wyches on foot? I'd drop a warrior's ride and give it to them. the warriors can sit back and shoot from a position. you want to get those wyches stuck in and hold a unit up.
My mistake, the Wyches most definitely have a Raider... I will fix that momentarily.
ReplyDeleteOne thing about the FF though, is that it also works in Combat. My personal problem with Night Shields on things meant to get up close is that, well... I'm already close. That 6" means less when I have to drop within 15" to guarantee a charge (over open ground, even).
Though you have a point, it's worth taking a look at.
In the end, I don't expect my Raiders (or any vehicle really) to withstand much punishment if the enemy is looking that way. As such, any defensive upgrade is really just frosting... if I could take a Venom as just a Venom, I'd happily drop all the Flickerfields and Night Shields and run one. Mobile infantry hate? Love it. And another boat to draw fire, no less.
Thanks for the feedback, in any case. I'll have to pay attention to those Raiders and see if the Night Shield would have been more beneficial.
If I could run lower level lords (oh the days of the Dracon...) I'd think about grabbing a pair and giving them Ghostplate (I was begging for it with the old codex) but if I want my Archon to last more than a few punches, I really need that 2++. Especially against any power fists that come to play, or anything else that would gimp him... the 2++ can really even the field against enemy characters.
ReplyDeleteThe TGL/GT combo is interesting... I may try to tweak things around to test that out. Though having to keep the Raider within 6" is a tad limiting, it's worth a shot.
Hydra Gauntlets are... well... it depends. If you're maxed out (as I am with 10 to a Raider) then they're not bad... but they're still hard pressed to be better than spending the points on another Wych. I think my Weapon of choice is the Razor Flail... but as a rule you should only take the Wych Weapons if you can't fit more Wyches into the squad, and have points to burn on a less-efficient option. I tend to leave the "good weapons" at home, and just bring the knives and pistols.
I'm guessing you mean a Lance on the Warriors? The reason I go for the Splinter Cannon is, for one, cost - less than half of the Dark Lance. They're meant to be a primarily anti-infantry firebase, softening up targets for my assaulty elements. As such, I favor the Cannon's mass poison fire. The Blaster gives me a pinch shot against a vehicle if I need. The Sybarite is there for the morale boost. I need them to not fail tests against tanks or enemy fire if they're going to be holding that objective, especially when I don't have many to spare.
As for the Reavers, I have to have 6 to tote 2 special weapons... and only 1 would make them unreliable in the extreme in that task. Plus, I'd about rather have people shoot at them (with a 3++) than take down one of my Raiders on my side of the field.