Friday, September 16, 2011

Revamping the Shadow Stalkers

by Anonymous Foodie


Every once in a while it comes time to look over your standard take-all-comers list, and trim the fat.  Who doesn't like tweaking things up?

After a grueling 3-minute session of soul searching and wrought emotions, I've subjected my 2000 point list to the royal treatment of "you there, be better".  Here is the outcome for your heckling enjoyment...

Dark Eldar, 2000 points

HQ
Archon
 Huskblade
 Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, Soul Trap

Elite
Incubi x5
 Raider, Flickerfield, Shock Prow

Trueborn x4
 Blaster x4
 Venom, +Splinter Cannon

Troops

Warriors x10
 Splinter Cannon, Blaster
 Sybarite
  Raider, Shock Prow


Warriors x10
 Splinter Cannon, Blaster
 Sybarite
  Raider, Shock Prow


Warriors x10
 Dark Lance
 Sybarite
  Raider, Shock Prow

Wyches x10
 Haywire Grenades
 Hekatrix, Agoniser
  Raider, Flickerfield, Shock Prow

Fast Attack (but really, what isn't?)
Scourges x5
  2x Haywire Blaster

Reaver x6
 2x Heat Lance
 Arena Champ, Power Weapon

Heavy Support

Ravager
 Night Shield, Shock Prow

Ravager
 Night Shield, Shock Prow

Razorwing
 2x Dissintegrators, +Splinter Cannon

Points: 1994
KPs:  18


And now the rundown of why I do what I do... or rather, why I took what I took.

HQ

Some people don't like the Huskblade.  I do.  It's both a surgical tool and the only way to really turn your Archon into the monster he deserves to be.  After the entrapment of an IC (or MC), the double-strength bonus means he can pretty much start walking through squads on his own.  That's pretty rad.

The biggest complaint I hear about the 'blade is "He's only S3, he's too weak to be useful!".  Yeah, S3 isn't anything to write home about.  But I only need to cause one wound.  Let's look at how hard that is real quick...

6 Attacks at WS7... so 4 hits.  S3 against (probably) T4... that's 1.3 wounds.  Oh snap.  I just got what I needed immediately.  You have a 4++?  Okay... you pass that one and I kill you in your phase, saving me from shooting.  Huzzah.

Elites

Incubi.  They ride with the big boss and keep my minions off of him.  Depending on the targets in question, they stick with him or form their own power weapon wielding unit o' doom.  Huzzah.

Trueborn.  These are new to me.  I'm iffy on their inclusion, but I want to test them out.  For the cost, the unit provides pretty incredible firepower.  4 Dark Matter shots at an effective 24" (or 32.8" if absolutely necessary), with a supporting 12 poisoned shots from the boat at up to 48".  The size of the model helps, making it very easy to hide, but I am wary of the survivability of 4 dudes in an AV10 kite-plane.  But they pack more firepower than about any other unit for less points (barring the flyer).

Troops

The standard layout for my Warriors is the cannon/blaster combo.  Yes, I like to take Sybarites for the Leadership bonus.  A handful of points for about the same percentage increase of passing Ld tests, when these guys are the ones who hold my objectives?  Seems like an idea to me.  Their weaponry is versatile and mobile, allowing them to act as a supportive core to my other more dedicated units.

The lance-bearing Warrior squad - if the other Warriors are the units I want to hold objectives, this is the unit that will.  Ideal for sitting on a tower with an objective all game long, and the range to do something useful in the meantime.  Yes, it's only one missile shot most of the time.  But that's still more dice.  As I was hanging one squad back, usually, to hold a far objective anyway, it seemed prudent to shape them to better toward the task.  Also, their Raider (nearly always starting empty) gives me another mobile lance.

Wyches are pimpsauce.  Haywire Grenades are the new toy on the block here.  Since they lost the ability to tote Blasters everywhere, being able to glance a vehicle to death kind of makes up for it.  Barring the Monolith, which is immune to such fallacies as "glancing" (for intents and purposes, not literally, mind you), two turns aught to shake open any tin cans I throw them at.  And hey, a 6 will still Penetrate.  And yes, this is secondary.  I prefer to throw them at troops.  But it just gives me yet another way to deal with vehicles if I need.

Fast Attack

Scourges got trimmed down from 6 or 7 strong to the bare minimum.  As 2 will cause a break check regardless, the only benefit is the extra splinter shots.  While tasty, the 9 (plus haywire damage) put out by the squad at this size is enough for any infantry duty I need to perform.  Haywire Blasters make them the stunlock unit of choice.  They do what the Wyches can do, but from 24" away (don't forget the 12" move).  Only 2 shots (instead of 10 grenades) means I won't be shaking it to pieces every turn, but they're about as reliable as you can get to keep something from shooting at you.

Reavers are one of my favorite units, mainly just for funsies.  They can either shoot-n-scoot with a melta-lance weapon on your rear armor, or turbo 36" with a 3++ while doing damage to infantry.  Some people look at them and don't like the 5+ save.  Truth is, if you have to roll that 5+ save, you're either willing to let them die or you did something wrong.  If you're not in position to blow up a tank, you're turbo-boosting (and enjoying a 3+ cover save).  If you're popping a transport, you're assaulting the guys inside (hence the inclusion of a leader with a power weapon - making this tactic fairly viable instead of suicide).

Heavy Support

Ravagers

3 mobile lances.  You point it at a vehicle, and statistically you will damage it.  Any questions?

Razorwing Jetfighters have appealed to me since they were included in the book.  It gives me a reason to pull out my Forgeworld Ravens on a regular basis.  They're cool (like bow ties).  And if anything deserves a good zooooooom noise as it moves around, it's this guy.

This unit will typically be kept in reserves, and upon its unleashing will pretty much wreck the dome of whichever infantry unit you point it at.  It totes 12 shots, 6 of which poison and 6 S5 ap2 (hello, terminators) allowing it the prestigious title of "I can kill armored infantry from a distance better than any other units, thanks", in addition to the 4 S6 large blasts that it can drop at its leisure (and by leisure, I mean as soon as it hits the board).  It can cause enough wounds to a moderate group of good-save things to get past it, or just enough wounds to take a 30-strong ork mob down to an easy-to-handle bundle of green.

After the initial payload is out, it flits around with its 12 shots and harasses whatever needs it.


Shock Prows were another new addition, and every vehicle that can has them.  Tank shocking is good.  It has finally annoyed me enough to make me want to do it to everyone else, just to make them annoyed too.  Further, it makes me better at Ramming... so after you blow off my gun, the Raider itself is a missile.  A potentially S10 missile, actually.  Kinda fun.

So the floor is open.  Questions, comments, even criticism, so long as it doesn't make me want to just smack you for being stupid.  Let me have it.  And feel free to help me test it, while we're on the subject.

23 comments:

  1. Man I am really interested in the DE codex now. Even if I don't get anywhere on Saturday I am going to buy a dex. You along with Xaereth have motivated me to maybe try something new. :)

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  2. Always happy to put the dark taint into a loyalist soul.

    Anything in particular catching your eye? Unit comp, play style, overall feel? I'm always happy to talk tactics and throw around ideas if you're interested.

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  3. Well,

    You know me! The assault oriented guy I am. I am liking Helions and beastmaster packs, but I don't have a codex, so I will need to study, and study, and study first.

    What I would want is something like.....

    Some longrangs, a good deal of close combat... distraction units....and good support to make them mix together.

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  4. I've run Trueborn three times so far, twice with a yacht. OF those two times, they never once got out, and the time without, they ended up stuck at the far end of the table against a turtle marine player and never saw any action. Now, I field mine alongside The Duke, and stick them with 2 Cannons, 2 blasters, and 5 Carbines. That's 27 P3+ shots, 2 18" Lances, and a 6" Lance from Sliscus himself (though that's only happened once). I use these guys very defensively, and don't move them alot, which is probably gonna change...if they ever get shot outta their boat. The boat itself I give Shock Prow, Flickerfield and Night Shields, Torment Grenade Launchers (Saved my bacon more than once), and Splinter Racks, turning all those lovely P3+ shots into TL P3+ shots.

    Course the 4 Blasters does sound nice, so I may swap them in for whatever I'm running in my third elite slot, but for now it's Wracks, while I test them out.

    Huh, I think this might be the most I've posted on here.

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  5. Some things:

    *4 Blasters sound nice, but 2x Dark Lance trueborn will live more and do more over the course of a game. Oh, and you won't curse when the gunline comes and lits up your ass.

    *Your Ravagers have Night Shields to stay away, but also have Flickerfields...why?

    *10 Warriors + a Splinter Cannon...what, not enough poisoned shots? If going for the Blaster + Raider, cut them to 5-man.

    *Don't see the point on all those Sergeant upgrades.

    *Razorwing with Splinter Cannons...see above.

    Overall, DE get anti-infantry almost free with mass poision, so they should focus more on getting anti-tank upgrades + some dual purpouse units. I would cut the Blaster Warriors to 5-man, swap Blasters for Dark Lances on Trueborn, dump the Sergeant upgrades on everything except the Wyches and try to squeeze a third FA squad.

    And I don't like the Sushkbalde + Soul-trap because I feel that you jump through many hoops to use it fully (how many IC's or MC's you see on tables these days?). If going for Archon, I would keep him cheap with a Venom Blade OR dump the Archons+Incubi for Vect (which does so many things that is not even funny). Though it depends on tastes.

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  6. Should be "but also have Shock Prows".

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  7. ok, I think I've always had this different than most people, but here is my logic.

    Ravagers have get flicker field, because they have what 36 inch range? even if it was 48, night fields don't do much, as it is long range fire that is shooting at them. So 6" less on a 48 range with 6" movement vs your 36" range means it doesn't matter that much.

    Where as on say your icubi raider, it wants to deliver CC units, so I would take night shields on that instead. Because now, they can't take their extra shots into it as easily. They can't just be like, well I'm going to rapid fire bolters, and the melta gun into it, because you just cut their range in half. This forces them to use more long range fire into it.

    Just my thought, but besides that, Looks like a solid list.

    I too have been wanting to play DE. But I gave it some time and made the choice, I picked Tau over DE, I know I prefer durable more than the speed.

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  8. I've been playtesting a few 1500 lists for my (still mostly theoretical) DE army.

    Here's some ideas, take them for what they're worth:



    HQ

    I've tried the Archon setup. I love it, it was a lot of fun. Issue is it's not so versatile in an allcomer build. What it comes down to is your local meta. Do you see plenty of juicy ICs and MCs for him to eat? Ghazzy Orks, Mech Eldar, IG et al could ruin your fun very easily and turn him into a bit of a lemon.

    I swapped him out (with regret) for 2x Haemonculai one with a shattershard and one with a liquifier gun. The pain tokens are golden and the templates are great vs any army so it's just a bit better for allcomers.



    Elites:

    Incubi are great vs MEQs, I prefer bloodbrides for their versatility against any target but really it's six of one and half-dozen of another. Pick whichever looks cooler.

    The 4x trueborn I cut down to 3x for points reasons but I noticed it dropped their threat priority too. I disgorge them in a fairly sheltered spot in the midfield on turn one so the Venom can keep moving 12 and firing all its defensive splinter cannons :)

    Finding the spare firepower to dislodge 3 guys in cover is pretty hard for most armies. It's very easy to position such a small squad out of LOS from most of their natural predators.

    If you're worried about the missing dark lance just chuck a blast pistol on someone, maybe a syrabrite if you don't cut them...



    Troops:

    I /would/ cut the syrabrites and replace them with grizley trophies (assuming you like to keep your boats close to each other for mutual support). It's a cheaper AND more reliable way to ensure you pass your LD checks.

    The "deckchair" unit of 10 guys with 1 dark lance you have earmarked for babysitting your backfield objective might not do so well. I went a different direction: 5 guys in a venom. It's cheaper and has a flickerfield.

    I feel that a deckchair unit wants to be out of LOS completely so it doesn't drop off the board when it gets shot at. If you agree then 5 men is just as good as 10 in most scenarios.



    As for the rest of your list. I'm running something almost identical, minus the jetbikes and some of the upgrades due to the lower point limit. The Scourges were great fun, vs IG they stun-locked Pask's Punisher on turn one making it easy pickings for a Wych squad with haywires to clean it up on turn 2!

    I really like the jetbikes for 2k, I think they add some nice AT with the melta shots and the 36 inch flat-out move just makes them so versatile in the mid-late game.

    I also added shock prows to my Ravagers and I would add Nightshields too if I had the points.




    The reason why I did it, I assume you're thinking the same thing, is because their role changes as the game progresses.

    Turn 1-4: Kill enemy tanks
    Turn 5-7: Enemy tanks are dead - contest/score

    If the enemy has blobbed loads of troops onto an objective a shock prow/tank shock could be a perfect get out of jail free card!

    With the Razorwing, it has nice burst damage and blast templates mean you don't have to waste all your shooting killing off a horde of gaunts when really you want your poisoned shots for the MCs.
    Equally those AP2 Dissintegrator cannons can be really nice. Try torrenting down troops like terminators or sanguinary guard with they have FNP as well. Disintegrators mean you can eradicate these threats without having to resort to wasting dark lances on them.

    Oh and it looks sexy!

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  9. OK, I've been hearing people talk about the glory of Dark Lance spam armies, and now I feel it's time I point 2 things out: 1) Dark Lances are HEAVY. 2) DE are meant to be a MOBILE ARMY. I talk to people all the time who seem to think that DE sitting idly with 6 warrior squads with a single lance each is enough. Sure, they may be in cover, but most army builds run at least one answer to cover, usually more.

    Now onto other stuff. Sergeants. Never underestimate their usefulness. I often feel that Marine players take them for granted due to the fact that they get theirs as part of the base cost of the squad, but that extra Ld can be the difference between holding an objective and running scared. Plus, there's that extra attack in case you get assaulted (in the case of those non-assaulty units). And let's be honest: Which will last longer, a vehicle that can be taken out by bolter fire, or an infantryman with a cushy 9-man bubble, plus any cover or other saves he might get, such as FNP?

    Note to Korona about Termies with Sanguine Priests: My Duke/Trueborn combo did really well taking out about 7 termies from a mix of Board-n-hammer and claws, PLUS their accompanying Priest in two rounds of fire. Course I did roll a bit above average, the potential is still there to take them out without needing Disintegrators, because the problem with Ds is that you can only take them by dropping a D-Lance, which means you now have one less anti-tank weapon in your army.

    Now Night Shields: I know they aren't gonna save me from Lascan fire, but that's not what they're supposed to do. They're there to save against the deep strikers, be it from Drop Pods, or Jump Infantry. Back when I first started playing DE, I'd often loose my boats to Deep Strikers shooting base guns, or in the case of BA, meltas. They don't usually completely negate attacks, but they usually reduce the number of attacks to something that a 4+ or 5+ can handle.

    Now, one, or rather two, things I haven't heard mentioned yet are the Engines, Cronos and Talos. While I haven't used the Talos yet, the Cronos has done quite well for me. So far, it's managed to make at least 2 Pain Tokens per game before dying, usually to lascan fire, or other such anti-tank weapons that would normally have already shredded my paper boats. Their Tough 7 makes then harder to wound that even the Nid's biggest bug, and their ability to chew through most units makes them a great distraction while the rest of your units move up. One of my favorite things about the Cronos in particular is that you can give it a Spirit Vortex, a S3 AP3 Large Blast, on top of its S4 AP3 Template, for only 100 points, while being able to shrug off more Autocannons than any other DE Heavy Support.

    Ok, I think that's everything I felt like ranting/blithering about. Not really sure. I hope so.

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  10. Reason for Shock Prows on Ravagers - Tank Shocking late game.

    I prefer Night Shields on them (thus far - could be convinced to switch) over Flickerfields because they are more able to stay at range, making them useful for the various 24" weaponry as well (rare, yes).

    Also, the build of the (old, particularly) DE vehicles allows for a nasty trick. The entire nose section is the Front Armor part. This is also where the guns stick out. A cleverly positioned Ravager can stick out its nose (front armor) from cover while facing its side to the target. If they're facing the side, but can only see the front, that's a 3+ cover save. Beats the pants off of a 5+.

    Why I am so far not convinced that I like 5-man warrior squads - 5 guys die to a single glance. These are my objective holders, and if they could stay completely out of sight, yeah that'd be great... but that's rarely the case in my experience. Cover is easy, but few things truly block LoS these days. I need them to have some semblance of holding power.

    Huskblade worries - pretty much anything but IG is guaranteed to have at least one IC. 99% of HQ's fit the bill, no? And IG are only T3, so the Archon is fairly nasty already. Evens out, I say. The basic warrior becomes such a CC threat to IG mans that the lesser effectiveness of the Archon doesn't bother me as much.

    Grisly Trophies - Basically agreed with NeverThere... I don't expect my Raiders to stick around for the full game. Sergeants can make it to the end far easier. Fully agreed that the re-roll would be better, but it's a short range on a very, very flimsy platform. Something I'm less likely to trust than an effectively built in bonus.

    Thanks for the comments so far... please keep it up!

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  11. So beastpacks and helions... what is the experience on them?

    What about the warpgate?

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  12. Well, these are things I actually haven't used in the new book, for different reasons.

    I have a pack of what are now Khymera (although the new beast master is a WIP). I've yet to pull them out in a recent game because of the changes to the Webway Portal.

    I don't think they're bad, per se, but I don't think they're worth the amount of hype that the intarwebs have given them recently. Khymera got a nice 4++ boost, so they straight up got better. And you have have a full on horde of them. Nothing wrong with that. But it's still just a horde of T3 guys with a 4++. Wyches die eventually. So will these guys.

    If you go all Fiends, you can have a majority T5 unit, which is cool... although you can do the same with an Archon's Court or just Grotesques.

    If you're a fan of having one big mob o' silliness, then sure, run around with 20 Khymera and a Fiend for good measure. They'll kill things. They're just not unstoppable.

    Hellions I never used due to cost - used to be $10 a pop. Probably went up as time went on, no less. And in the old book they just weren't good - they were an assault unit with one attack and a rifle.

    Now? They're the line-breakers that they were always meant to be. You run up, get a nice slew of poison shots, and charge in with S4 (plus drugs). Only the leader can tote a power weapon, but it's weight of numbers here. They're fast, good at causing an early dent, even have more staying power than they used to. They lost the 5++ jink save, though, I think.

    Really Great with the Baron, since he makes them Scoring (huge), and allows them to properly use cover with both Stealth and Skilled Rider. Instead of taking a blob of 20 into a forest and losing 3-4, you'll lose 1 on a bad roll.

    Webway portal... it's good for certain builds. My issue is that you can't take vehicles through it... since I play a mech force, that kind of counts me out. But it's great for reavers, hellions, beast packs, even Wyches on foot if you're canny.

    You pretty much have to take two though. Drop one first turn (because you're not locked into the portal - if you make the reserves roll before it's open, you use the table edge per usual), then drop the 2nd one after having boosted into position. Heamonculi are still the preferred carriers, since you can have multiple and they tend to be more durable (FnP off the bat, so in cover they and their squad are hard to push).

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  13. I am currently making a DE WWP army centred around Hellions and Wyches myself. The inherent randomness of reserves means it probably cannot perform reliably enough to win a large tournament, but I think it can beat just about anything. I would guess that it would have most trouble with mech Eldar and Venom spam.

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  14. You can avoid Dark Lance spam, but you kinda need to have them on a place besides Ravagers. Having only 3 units with long-range kinda doesn't work.

    I'm always convinced that more guns = more better. And DE Sargeants are more useful for the extra gun.

    Hellions...they are useful, as a smaller unit (7-8 man)to pop in and surprise something. For a huge blob, ratther have Beastmaster units, which can pour a shitton of rending attacks on someone on turn 1. I suggest proxies of course, damn things cost too much otherwise.

    If I see a Soul trap, I can hide my HQ waaay to the back. So you have to go through my army to get him. Not so awesome now, right?

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  15. @ Foodie, I really think it makes the game a lot more fun with LOS blocking pieces. We boarded up the ground floor windows on our buildings with coffee stirers stolen from Starbucks :P
    It really plays up the manoeuvre side of the game which DE players can certainly appreciate.

    @ TNT, I figure cos the Razorwing is anti-infantry already it's fine to stick with more anti-inf weapons. There's around 19 lances in the list plus the haywires so it's not light on AT overall.


    @ Spag, check the 11th company episode 67. They have an interview with a competitive player who runs a pair of WWPs. He has some nice ideas there about how to deploy them and what role they play in his wider strategies.

    What I really like is that he doesn't make them the core hook of his whole army, it's just one more tool for him to abuse his prey, sorry I mean 'opponent', with. Heh heh heh.

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  16. I understand, Korona. Just tryin' to point out one of their few draws. Whenever I run my 3 Ravagers, I run them each with 1 Dis and 2 Lance. I did find out the hard way though that against Nid Hive Guard, they fall short, because of the cover saves and T6. But otherwise, they are pretty nice if you've got the space.

    And GX1080, Dark Lances come standard and free on Raiders, so you can actually field an entire army without any infantry DLs, and still have a shit-ton. 3 from Elite and 6 from troops is still 9. And if you're running Fast in your army on top of that, half of those have great AT weapons, so foot-Lances are just something that'll slow you down. Now, I'm not saying don't take any foot-lances, cause that'd just be silly considering how you'd only have them on paper boats. But spamming them is a no-no. Sad thing is, I've heard of people putting them on Scourges. But that's a rage-face for another day.

    Now, as for WWPs and Hellions. Jury's still out on WWPs, though they can be great for getting Engines in nice and close, among other things (Theoretically. Still need to play a few more games with them though). Now Hellions. Yes. And here I'm going to agree with GX. A full blob of 20 is gonna be hard to use, mostly because of how much space they'll take up. When they've got their Hellglaives up, these things horde space like none other. He's right on the money when he says to go with a small group, though I personally like 10, just cause it's nice and divisible by 5. Make maths easy cause brain don't always work good. And they come in boxes of 5, so I'd rather get 2 boxes of Wyches/Warriors than a second set of boxes of Hellions. Now, they do tend to die pretty fast, but that's because they're usually seen as a threat. 'Specially when I drop them right back next to their Base or (with IG) Command Squad, then unload 20 P4+ shots. And then do the same the next turn, PLUS assault. And if you manage to assault (and survive) a unit with a IC, isolate them with H&R and Stun Claw (A mere 5 points, and it still adds +1 S and +1 Att.)

    Now, I'd like to point out a little something I just discovered about the Soul-Trap. It can be used "Whenever the bearer kills and enemy Independent Character or Monstrous Creature," and that's where it gets interesting. It doesn't say 'kills in Close Combat'. It just says kills. So for those of you looking for a cheaper, or safer, alternative, I give you the Hexrifle! For 35 points, that's the same as a single Huskblade, you can get a Power Weapon, Soul-Trap, and an SX AP4 Assault 1 Sniper weapon with 36" range that forces a Wound Test every time it inflicts a wound. Should that test fail, they are removed (not simply killed, but removed. That includes Thawn and Yarrick.) from play. And then you can trigger your trap, poof up to S6 on your FNP Haemunculi, and charge off for some good ol' fashioned (s)laughter. Just a thought, though once repairs are done on my army (sooo many pointy bits), I think I'll give it a try. Course, it will work best (maybe that should be "only" instead) against MCs, but hey, it's easier to kill a MC from range than with a pointy stick (unless that stick has a 2+ Poison on it).

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  17. @ Gx1080

    Considering the vast majority of HQ's are CC oriented, if you're going to hide yours in the back to keep from getting Husk'd, then I've already won ;).

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  18. I bought the codex and have a battleforce coming from Ard Boys!! Plus maybe some more stuff coming in. Let's get started folks.

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  19. I like it ok...I'm just going to mention that, although they are practically an automatic choice for Wyches, Haywires are often lauded as being good when they are merely serviceable from an objective standpoint.

    10 rolls on a vehicle that moved over 6" will average only 1 hit after all - better than none, undoubtedly, and almost guaranteed to roll on the Damage Chart and thus do something - but far from spectacular. Grenades, as a rule, are a poor answer to vehicles - an emergency measure more than anything.

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  20. @ T_K_E

    Oh, I'm not about to scream about Haywires being the newest best thing in dropping tanks left and right - you're fully correct in allocating them to something closer to emergency measures.

    That said, what happens when your Wyches get stuck in with a Dread, or your last Blaster is out of range? It leaves me with an option, at half the cost that they used to be.

    Also, 90% of vehicles moving over 6" aren't doing anything else. When the point of a glance is (largely) to keep you from shooting at me, I can hardly complain when you opt to do it for me :).


    A good way to look at it - Wyches used to be able to pack a pair of Blasters in the squad. This was often done for the one-two punch of "open can, eat delicious insides for snack". With Blasters no longer an option (other than an expensive blaster pistol option for the squad leader) Haywires come in to fill that role.

    They also have the perk of working in your assault phase as well (if you don't move, which a glance or two can help with), and against Walkers in combat.

    Whether a squad's worth of Haywires is equivalent to a pair of Blasters is up to a mathhammer run to decide (and I've been popping pills like candy today thanks to my wisdom tooth finally deciding to make an appearance). So I'm in no mood (nor questionably right mind) to try.

    In the end, do I want my Wyches to be active anti-tank duty? No.

    Am I going to turn down a relatively cheap and effective way of helping vs armor, especially in the world of "Mech is King"? Not a chance.

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  21. Don't see anything wrong with putting Lances on Scourges, though I think that DL Trueborn are better, because Blaster Trueborn are too many points on the Paper-thin transport.

    About Wyches...meh. Rather take Warriors or Wracks.

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  22. Oh, absolutely, I pretty much think of them as a MUST-buy for Wyches.

    I'm just not sold on Wyches in general, and I know if any inexperienced DE players read this, I wanted things to be crystal clear that Haywires aren't a GOOD answer, except in the context of being Wyches ONLY answer. :)

    Sorry for the delay replying.

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