I'm sure that Mike will be releasing all sorts of Stats and charts for us to munch on in the coming weeks, but I thought I'd make a chart out of the info he's already released on overall codex performance at this year's NOVA Open.
As I see it, we can separate all the codices into 3 distinct tiers. Those that won more games than they lost, those that lost more games than they won by a little, and those that won barely more than one third of their games.
What was it Stelek said a few months back about the Dark Angels (or at least a certain kind of DA build) now being the strongest overall codex post-FAQ? That prediction seems to be borne out in their performance here. Just wait until Mantic releases it's Warpath models.
Squats as Dark Angels? Yes please. :)
Edit: Let's try this again with another chart that shows the granularity of the results, and hence indicates to some extent the variability based on the number of players for each codex.
Better?
Is the codex really stronger or is just deathwing is stronger?
ReplyDeleteDo DA players run anything else? Bike armies maybe. But when I think DA, I think Deathwing.
ReplyDeleteThe ability to give the ++3 storm shield to Dark Angels has really helped out the Deathwing along with the two shot cyclone.
ReplyDeleteYou find though that trying to balance out a list is interesting and actually end up taking a few stormbolter/powerfist guys overall to counter you lack of shooting.
Hordes give Deathwing a fit simply because of the numbers and tarpit them in combat.
I'd like to run a complete bike army but the number of bikes, unless at the 'Ard Boyz level, is prohibitive. You simply don't have enough on the table regardless of the quality of your bikes.
I have also been tyring a balanced list with Deathwing and armour but I'm really failing at it due to my abilities. I have to use only three or four terminator squads and support them with the armour and 'stuff' but I just get too agressive with them and end up without any 'troop' choices in the later parts of the game.
The NOVA Open is interesting but I noticed that none of the 'winners' used Dark Angels and the data at this point only points out how codices did in win/losses... I'm not sure we can read much into it without more information like builds and math-ups.
I'll be in a corner somewhere...
CK
The raw win/loss ratios need numbers represented to be a more meaningful analysis of codex performance. The majority of armies, from what I can see, were Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights and Dark Eldar. Their high win percentage with a higher n value is more meaningful than a win percentage with underrepresented armies.
ReplyDeleteNecrons did that well? LOL Just kidding!
ReplyDeleteNecrons don't seem so bad now, eh?
ReplyDeletePoor Chaos Space Marines...
Poor Tau.
ReplyDeletethe numbers are skewed a bit though... DA players don't play DA unless they KNOW how to play their codex. some many people jumped the band wagon to GKs that you aren't really getting the whole story here. the people who just picked up the GK codex because they heard that they were 'really good' and threw them on the table just to get tramped on, really weighs down the percentages that this chart shows. take this information for what it is.
ReplyDeleteYou have to get more granular, which I will endeavor to do. I.E. 2 Tau players had winning records, and 2 had losing records ... so you could argue they are better than net negative win/loss record .... etc.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you'll break everything down wonderfully Mike. I can't wait. :)
ReplyDeleteThe issue with these results is the only really valid armies are the ones with a bunch of players such as all the 5th edition books and Orks, all of which have more than 10 players. Otherwise you have a lot of single players lending a lot of weight to the results.
ReplyDeleteThat being said I do agree overall with what's been said - just be careful with saying look DA ARE THE BESTEST. ^^
Yeah, no offense, but that chart is about the least useful way to look at the results. The listed results with army representation in the article is far more important:
ReplyDelete5 x Dark Angels (23-17) 57.5%
22 x Blood Angels (97-79) 55.1%
32 x Grey Knights (140-116) 54.7%
25 x Space Wolves (106-94) 53%
21 x Imperial Guard (88-80) 52.4%
14 x Dark Eldar (58-54) 51.8%
10 x Ork (39-41) 48.8%
4 x Witch Hunters (15-17) 46.9%
6 x Black Templars (26-30) 46.4%
3 x Necron (11-13) 45.8%
27 x Space Marines (96-120) 44.4%
6 x Eldar (21-27) 43.8%
10 x Tyranids (34-46) 42.5%
6 x Tau (18-30) 37.5%
6 x Chaos Daemons (16-32) 33.3%
6 x Chaos Space Marines (16-32) 33.3%
Reading too much into the results of the armies with tiny amounts of actual players isn't the best idea. There's too much possibility for two really good or really bad players to throw the percentages off, and virtually no chance things actually worked out to a reasonable average that represents real performance.
If you cut it down to the Codexes that had reasonable amounts of players (which, as Kirby pointed out, is just 5th Edition + Orks) it looks more like this:
22 x Blood Angels (97-79) 55.1%
32 x Grey Knights (140-116) 54.7%
25 x Space Wolves (106-94) 53%
21 x Imperial Guard (88-80) 52.4%
14 x Dark Eldar (58-54) 51.8%
10 x Ork (39-41) 48.8%
27 x Space Marines (96-120) 44.4%
10 x Tyranids (34-46) 42.5%
Ha! I'ma taking 1st @ semi's with that LAST codex...how you ask? The insane missions. I plan on skirting Mission 1 with at least a Minor Win, then massacreeing the unsuspecting fhools!
ReplyDeleteMission 1 would be a challenge to get a massacree on. But looking at mission 2 and 3, I was thinking just troops over firepower.
Nurgle Daemon Prince (Wings, Nurgle's Rot)
Nurgle Daemon Prince (Wings, Nurgle's Rot)
x5 Plague Marines (Melta/Plasma, Personal Icon)+ Rhino(Combi Flamer)
x5 Plague Marines (Melta/Plasma, Personal Icon)+ Rhino(Combi Flamer)
x5 Plague Marines (Melta/Plasma, Personal Icon)+ Rhino(Combi Flamer)
x5 Plague Marines (Melta/Plasma, Personal Icon)+ Rhino(Combi Flamer)
x5 Plague Marines (Melta/Plasma, Personal Icon)+ Rhino(Combi Flamer)
x5 Plague Marines (Melta/Plasma, Personal Icon)+ Rhino(Combi Flamer)
x3 Obliterators
x3 Obliterators
x3 Obliterators
And since you can take any amount of Lesser Daemons, which count as troops and take up no FOC slots:
x5 Lesser Summoned Daemons
x5 Lesser Summoned Daemons
x5 Lesser Summoned Daemons
x5 Lesser Summoned Daemons
x5 Lesser Summoned Daemons
x5 Lesser Summoned Daemons
x5 Lesser Summoned Daemons
x5 Lesser Summoned Daemons
= x14 troop choices
I may combine teh last 3 or 4 squads to make a big daemon squad to act as a meat shield....still leaves me 10-11 scoring units....
Updated the post with another chart that shows the granularity better based on the number of players for each codex.
ReplyDelete"The NOVA Open is interesting but I noticed that none of the 'winners' used Dark Angels..."
ReplyDeleteHow are you defining "winner"? Alex Fennell won his bracket with Deathwing.