Wednesday, February 16, 2011

That Ominous Feeling Of Impending Meh

by SandWyrm

The Grey Knights rumors have been coming pretty hard lately. We have FOC breakdowns, blurry glimpses of new models, and descriptions of quite a few special rules. Most of which has been pretty consistent since November. Most of the information makes sense from a design and game-balance perspective too. There's nothing that stands out as unlikely or wish-listing at present. Which is why I'm going to just go ahead and say it.

I think the new Grey Knights are gonna kinda suck.

No, I don't mean that they won't win games. There's lots of new toys there. More than enough for at least 2 competitive builds. But I just don't see them being as flexible a book as IG, Wolves, Blood Angels, or Dark Eldar. In fact, I am getting a distinct Tyranid vibe from them. I expect that certain units (Stern, Paladins, Stormravens, Dread Knights) will excel, but most others will be kind of marginal. Leading to a quick burnout in the playerbase as the limitations become known and the variety of builds is found wanting.

Beyond that though, I just don't find myself inspired by what I'm seeing. Voltron? Really?

From a conceptual/fluff standpoint, it's going to be a real mess too. The Grey Knights are a dedicated Daemon-Hunting force. So what's with the Ordos Hereticus and Xenos Inquisitors? How can you have Ordos Xenos without the Death Watch? With no Stormtroopers or IG/PDF as troops, how could you possibly do the Ordos Xenos or Hereticus justice? I know you can take Henchmen as troops with one of the special characters, but it still seems ill-conceived and tacked-on. There's not going to be any non-GK Heavy Support or Fast Attack options available to make an all-Inquisition army balanced and viable.

Now, if GW had wanted to do things right, it would have put the Ordos Xenos in Codex: Space Marines or the IG Codex, along with the Deathwatch. Daemonhunters and WitchHunters could then have been updated more naturally. But no. We get this weird mashup instead.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong and the codex will be great, but I don't think so.


  1. I think a full Inquisition codex should have been the way to go. They could have based the whole army structure around which HQ units you took. Take an Inquisitor HQ and you can only take units from his order. Take a Grey Knight HQ and you can only take Grey Knights.

    Taken together, the whole inquisition range can put out a codex as dynamic as the IG codex. Taken on their own, each order can only support so much variation without inventing a whole host of new units.

  2. I hope they are good, I know there are some people really looking forward to starting them. Also I'm hoping they'll make deamons a little rarer, they always give me trouble. haha

  3. I think that I am going to reserve judgement until the codex hits the local game store. I'm primarily an IG player, and I don't expect that to change. I do however have a soft spot for the GKs for their fluff and what they are supposed to be. If the new codex can produce a few fun builds that are competitive and different, I will be inclined to pick them up as a 2nd army.

    I'm currently mulling over whether to go with GKs or a Deathwing army for something with a smaller footprint than my current IG army to play in some of the smaller local venues.

  4. Witch-hunters are coming later in the year, I think that'll be more like a "codex inquisition" with Sisters hopefully backed up with an exotic array of auxilliary troops (PDF etc.).

    This is all about the GKs for better or worse. It's going to rest on the various ways their powers combine. Hopefully a lot of wargear and special rules makes up for the issues an elite force has.

    If everyone just runs 2 wound 3++ terminator builds I'll weep.

  5. First off, look at your typical GK player. Yeah you see some at tourneys, but mostly you see them at pick ups or with friends because they've been quietly playing their army with a passion. My point is that I think you'll find a majority of people playing GKs because they love the fluff.

    The old DH codex is still one of my favorites, not because it has killer builds, but because of all it adds to the storylines and narratives we've been playing since it came out.

    So early on I think there's going to be a couple of things going on and let's just assume what you suspect is correct about the builds, not saying it is, but for the sake of argument.

    1. All the old GK players are going to get the codex, maybe some of the new plastic figs and then they are going to let out some of that pent up aggression they've been building all these years and turn loose some nasty termies on everyone around them. That will last for a few months, then they'll dust themselves off and go back to playing the way they used to (for fun) with the new codex because that's how they play. some of those guys will go to tourneys.

    2. If as you suspect, there are only a couple of builds for tourney mentalities, then those will show up, people will freak out over them for a little while, then people will adjust and they'll just go back to the way things were.

    3. If there are a few builds, they will contribute their piece to the meta game and people will just have to deal with them.

    4. However, super elite armies in tourneys usually are a minor player because they take a special personality to play them and it isn't necessarily to take the top table.

    5. I'm looking forward to the codex and will treasure it like my other one. :)

  6. I hear you sandwyrm. I will play them because I love them! I love the idea of Good vs Evil and love killing chaos models. That being said, I really like elite low count model armies as they are more challenging to play. 45 models against 120+. It is a huge challenge, but when you accomplish the task, it is amazing.

  7. I really just want to be able to field my Inquisitor's private army using the DH codex. Couldn't give a rat's ass about the Grey Knights.

  8. Yep. That's the only thing I'm really interested in too.

  9. I'm hopeful. If there are 3-4 'competitive' builds, I'll be happy. From the rumors and leaks I've seen so far, I think there will be a few.
    I'm not yet sure if the all Paladin army is really going to be one of them.

    DreadKnights will terrify people. so will Purifiers.

    if you like henchmen armies, dust off Coteaz, and get ready to field the Inquisitorial circus you've always wanted to.

  10. when it comes to the dreadknight build. i.e voltron, im reserving judgement on the look, cause well the current pics have the look of my grandma's glaucoma ridden eyes. as for the dex, im thinking it will probably suffer from a few flaws, and lose a few players with the loss of sisters. i still think an all inquistion book would have been the way to go imho.

  11. I'm curious about the prospect of pyscannon spam and a nose dive in the chaos daemon player population.

  12. I really wanted to play GK, I read the fluff, saw the old metal models and was so excited. . . thanks for bringing me down.

    I agree the book seems like a blended assortment of left overs that GW had in their fridge from weeks past. What bothers me the most however is I don't think GW will take the time to explain why they put everything in the codex they did.

    The comment you made about a tyranid feel, that's what I was afraid of. Would you believe I still have people telling me the tyranid codex is the best codex out? BAHAHAHAHA!! If other people start sharing your opinion such as Goatboy, Kirby, or Stelek I can see people waiting. Often times when a codex comes out there's a sudden influx of buying multiple units in that army. However if the other blogs and websites for gamers catch on that the codex sounds tyranid-ish I can see people waiting until those 2-3 builds are hammered out and then just buying that army. Copy, paste, done.

    The other thing that bothers me, it's a Marine codex. Most the marines codexes have enough unit options and variety that you are able to mix and match. Many marine players have 3k yet only use 2k at a time because be it BA, SW, VM the majority of the units have a place and can fulfill more than one roll. The GK codex is sounding like a specialty codex just like tyranids.

    Let us all do this together on 3. . .2. . .1. . . *sigh and face-palm*

  13. P.s.

    Korona- You said
    "It's going to rest on the various ways their POWERS COMBINE"
    Did you miss what we are saying? Voltron. . . not captain planet.

  14. rionnay: i dont know about you, but my glaucoma vision pegs it as a great rendition of gundam wing. i hope it can be fully articulating with 32 points of movement and kung-fu grip!!! nothing better than picking up a necron god and flinging him across the cosmos.

  15. LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE!!!1eleventy-one!!!1

  16. awww....someones getting tired of his beloved knight gettin hit with the manga hate.

  17. p.s. if i recall brittney went on a bender across the state of california. made us all wanna hit her baby one more time, and eventually lost her head except for her throat hole. then she was finally put down. maybe we should do the same thing to mobile suit dread knight mk 1.

  18. nah. not really. I think the Avatar exosuit is kind of a silly idea.

    I mean, they're ALREADY wearing an exoskeleton (power armor). so it's like wearing a tux over your suit for work.

    the stuff I've seen so far that looks closest to release stuff is here:

    I'm fearful this is going to be another ho-hum codex like Space Marines, but with cooler magic, and fewer guys.

    It DOES look like there's flexibility written into the 'dex, I'm just not sure it's more flexible than the current WH/DH/IG combodexes.

    also: who wants to wrestle with a WS5 S7 T7 Avatarsuit?
    ork mobs will love humping it's leg, and Tyrranofexes will finally have someone to go toe-to-toe with.

  19. The Exo-Suit looks to me like the APV(?) from the third Matrix movie.

    The info at that link doesn't make me feel any better. Daemonhosts are still crap. WHY GW?!?! Why can't you make them useful?

  20. well daemonhosts in dark heresy beastly! especially an unbound one.


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