I like going to tourneys. I am often perplexed by the seemingly random restrictions shops put on their tourneys through Comp, or through just simply disallowing certain things.
I was looking forward to a tourney at Games to Die for, one of the local shops I'd never been to. So I checked their store forums for tourney rules, comp, points, etc... and I found my WH army was banhammered.
Because they've got a few Daemon players, and a few Drop pod players, there were a lot of guys using the Allies rules to take cheap DH inquisitors with mystics. Because of this, allies rules are not allowed, and more interestingly, Induction is not allowed.
now, I can understand not allowing IG and SM's to ally. They've got plenty of toys from their own codexes. Maybe not allowing =I= to ally MIGHT be understandable... I was going to take some GKT's though... but not allowing induction seems weird to me.
Probably because I USE an Inducted platoon.
When I stated that no allies or induction gimps my army, I was told it did not:
I strongly disagree that WH or DH are at any handicap without allies. They are stand alone codexes that are capable of putting good competitive armies on the table without allies. Maybe those of you planning to play out of either book should dig a little deeper and come up with new or different units. For instance A Guy Here plays pure sisters and was the winner of out last tourney. Daemonhunters have loads of very good units and wargear that is broken. From what I understand this will change in future tourneys with the arrival of a new codex. In any case, these are the guidlines that we have to follow and you still have almost a month to plan, prepare, and playtest which is plenty of time.I am glad I was not drinking anything when I got to the part about DH having loads of good units and wargear. I would have had a wet monitor. Obviously he didn't read My post, and SandWyrm's post about DH.
I don't think this guy's compared the new codexes to the old 3rd ed ones. They're not even close.
ok. I guess I could dig deeper into my codex, and stick a Priest into an IST unit, and have Arco-flagellents. woo.
restrictions and composition frustrate me to no end. More than having 2 out of date codexes, and part of a third, good codex does. I can't wait for a new combined Inquisition codex in about 6 months.
maybe I should just buy Space Marines. They've always got a flavor that's in favor, and not banned because of perceived 'overpowerdness'. heh. yeah. right.
Lame
ReplyDeleteBust out your Wisconsin Cheesehead hat, throw your 10 Immos down on the table, and treat them like the new kid on the cell-block. Then say, "Yeah, I guess you're right..."
ReplyDeleteIf I owned 11 Immos, and a few Rhinos. I would.
ReplyDelete2HQ immos,
3elite Immos
3fast attack Immos
3Heavy Immos
it's a lotta armor. Induction allows for a more tactical approach to games, rather than a spam concept. I personally prefer having a combined arms approach.
I think it was easier to ban all additions to codexes across the board, rather argue with people about "Why can =I= use stuff from other codexes, when I can't use stuff from their codex?"
I'd rather it be Inquisition can use allies and induction rules. I can understand not allowing allies for IG and SM's. I don't think either of them need anything from the =I= dexes anyway.
If Inq. were allowed to use only induction, I'll be content. I just have the pretty GKT's I would have liked to use.
I kind of feel your pain here. For the Planetstrike Challenge over in Brownsburg, the DE's Piratical Raiders (always the attacker if the mission has one) is being ignored.
ReplyDeleteMind you, I'm still planning to go, but I'm a bit irked by this. It's no less a rule of my army than ATSKNF is for Marines. The book is written as a hit-and-run force, and it's straight up not good at holding objectives. Automatically being the attacker isn't some busted rule, it's something that the book was built around. We just suck so hard at defending that it was basically a necessity.
Think of it as telling an all Drop Pod Marine army that they can not use reserves, even with units that *must* start in reserves. The army just stops working.
Now if I'm playing in a campaign, and there's a reason for such a restriction (ie; part of the narrative) then I'm game for it. Or just a friendly challenge, sure. But I already have the oldest codex gracing the shelves (if you can even find one these days) and I'm still getting hit with the gimp stick.
Because that just needed to happen...
Tell them to go F themselves. (Still not sure if you guys mind me swearing here. lol)
ReplyDeleteI'm Greg, the G2D4 regular that let you guys know about the tournament, and I've argued that they should remove the restriction as it's unfair to non-local players.
ReplyDeleteIt's all based around local dramaz. People are playing way more anti-demon than they need because one of the top players at the store plays demons. If you want to win the tournament, you'll have to beat him. I think the TO is going overboard to punish a few notorious meta-gamers at G2D4.
This kind of stuff drives people away, and causes more damage than the behavior its trying to socially engineer away.
Well, I suspended Piratical Raiders at the Brownsburg Planetstrike challenge because I was fearful it would upset the competitive balance of the event. I knew this wouldn't be a popular decision with any Dark Eldar players who attended but I felt the spirit of the event was players testing their ability to defend as well as attack. I don't like to do things like this, an army's rules are its rules even if they're ancient. I felt like I had to balance this decision against the enjoyment of the other players who would be attending. Some of whom had already pointed out that they were concerned about any Dark Eldar players showing up because of Piratical Raiders.
ReplyDeleteI hope you still have a good time tomorrow at the tournament and I'll see you there!
I agree with you, Greg. Banning some stuff because of people meta gaming things hurts in the long run.
ReplyDeleteI've played Scott's Daemons.
http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2009/12/dark-wood-glue-and-sand-for-win.html
I actually pulled Daemons TWICE that day. without mystics.
If I hadn't whiffed a full turn of shooting against Scott, I think I could have pulled a minor win.
Besides, if Scott's worried about people taking mystics, he could always show up with Orks, which would screw over the guys who brought Inquisitors in a different way.
I'll probably show up with my WH/inducted IG list, and if I'm told no, I'll go home.
either way, I'll take some pics, and cover what happens on the blog.
I hope it's a good experience, and I'd like to go play against guys I don't normally get to... without traveling a few hours.
I don't mean to come off in a hissy or anything... I think part of it is that everyone has a Defender's list... without knowing any special circumstances/scoring of the event, it's hard for me to see a justification.
ReplyDeleteIf they're already planning to be a defender during at least some of the battles, why are they complaining about being a defender?
It seems no different than me taking Horrorfexes in my list, and then playing against a Fearless army that can't be pinned. Except even worse... because they get to use a list specifically built to defend. As a defender.
*facepalm*
Anyway, like I said I still plan to give it a run, and hey, if I can win any games as a defender, I get to win with an army that's giving up special rules to do so, so extra kudos.
Plus, it's getting me to finally finish converting my Mandrakes (at least enough for this list).
Hey guys, I remember that game Farmpunk a very good one as I recall. I am not playing Daemons in the upcoming tourney, but if I were I have played enough games against Inq. to know how to beat them. Those of you who don't play locally might understand the comp if you could see the ridiculous amount of power gaming(not just against daemons either) that goes on at G2D4. Keith your guard look amazing. Hope you guys make it for the tourney.
ReplyDeleteI want to see converted Mandrakes, what out of? DElf Shades? DElf Corsairs??
ReplyDeleteDark Eldar Warriors and Green Stuff. Both the most in-depth conversion and most green-stuff intensive thing I've ever done (not that that's saying much).
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, there will be pictures soon enough.
any more info on the tourney? the g2d4 site doesn't have much info that i can find.
ReplyDelete@TKE
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's a family blog. So stay PG-rated please. :)
@ScottyDont
I've signed up for the tourney already. See you there! I do hope we get to play a game. I was actually jealous when Farmpunk got to go play Daemons twice while I had to stay home.
I also want to play some of these power gamers and beat them. :)
The G2D4 TO just posted this to their forum:
ReplyDelete"Ater reading over things and doing some serious thinking, I'm sticking to my original intent for this specific tourney, which is no allies or induction. The interactions between a realy old and out of date codex and the new guard codex is just a lot of head-aches and problems waiting to happen. I appologize to anyone that his affects in a negative way, though I'm sure it will not be the only ruling I make that will (Nids are giving me head-aches too).
In the next tourney I run, army comp score will determine a lot of the score, so a lot of the problem interactions should be limited (also hopefuly the pdf will be released). We also have an Ard Boyz tourney that the store is hosting that is open to all standard rules (don't worry, I don't run that one).
Once again, I'm sorry if this puts anyone out, but it is the nature of the beast that an organizer will never run an event everyone likes and there is always at least one army that seems to get the shaft. I'm very sorry if it is yours this time around and hope that you will try a different one in the future. There will be no debating this point to me or changing my mind since I have had to commit to a decision tonight."