So I am taking applications for the Grey Knight unit of death for only 150 pts....
I have been play testing my Grey Knights for approximately 24 games now and have come to the conclusion that besides the Librarian, a particular group of henchman are better in close combat for half the points than a unit of actual grey knights. (Yes I know the Librarian makes the unit cost more, but they are still good without him, and I always have a librarian anyways)
2 Arcoflagellants
4 Crusaders
4 Deathcult assassins
This is 150 points of pure killy madness. When you combine them with the Librarian, they can power up to do the following:
Unit Weapon Skill: Average 5
Attacks at Initiative 6-Strength 4 with power weapons on charge: 16
Attacks at Initiative 4-Strength 4 with force weapon on charge: 3
Attacks at Initiative 3-Strength 3 with power weapons on charge: 8
Attacks at Initiative 3-Strength 5 on the charge: 10
Power up unit with Hammerhand
Attacks at Initiative 6-Strength 5 with power weapons on charge: 16
Attacks at Initiative 4-Strength 5 with force weapon on charge: 3
Attacks at Initiative 3-Strength 4 with power weapons on charge: 8
Attacks at Initiative 3-Strength 6 on the charge: 10
Power up unit with Hammerhand and Might of Titan
Attacks at Initiative 6-Strength 6 with power weapons on charge: 16
Attacks at Initiative 4-Strength 6 with force weapon on charge: 3
Attacks at Initiative 3-Strength 5 with power weapons on charge: 8
Attacks at Initiative 3-Strength 7 on the charge: 10
So as we can see this is a lot of nasty power weapon attacks that kill most things on 2's, and hit most units on 3's.
BOLD PREDICTION!
This is the best unit in close combat against vehicles for the point cost! Hands down! Basically this 10 man unit plus the librarian turns into 11 monstrous creatures running around popping vehicles with east. Even Landraiders! 10 Strength 7 attacks with 2d6 armor penetrations!
With the high cost of grey knights, henchman can make a great close combat assault unit without the high cost of paying for the
power armor. Now they die a lot faster, but with good play, and
keeping them in cover, with shrouding you can make them have
a 3+ cover save pretty easily.
There are lots of henchman combo's but for me this is the best way to put them together for close combat which is what I really enjoy more.
What are some combo's you have?
What do you think of this 150 pts?
Do you want to be a henchman?
I have also been thinking about this henchman unit. It is a little less killy but has some other positive characteristics.
5 arcoflagellants
3 death cult assassins
2 crusaders
Plus 5 models with feel no pain and cover saves hopefully. Thoughts?
I've been thinking of a unit like this - maybe not as beefed as to not "draw attention" - as a super count attack unit (or if needs be gets stuck in).
ReplyDeleteTake it your running them in a Chimera?
I quite like the Arco heavy unit, T5 FNP is quite comical to help keep them alive, and T5 is a pain for attackers!
Where is the Toughness 5 coming from? Arco's are Strength 5, Toughness 3...
ReplyDeleteI like your melee unit but who is striking at Init 1? The Arco's are init 3?
The Acroflaglents make no sense to me as they are simply not bringing any close combat prowess or durability. FNP on a toughness 3 model with no save is like giving someone an empty beer. The Death Cult Assassins are the close combat monsters thanks to their 4 power weapon attacks on the charge at I6. Thrown in WS5 and a Hammerhand buff and they are smashing MEQs. Want to make things worse then attach them with A GKGM, an Inquisitor that has Rad Grenades so you -1T to the unit you are fighting. You can crunch the math but roughly 6 Death Cults are killing 10.6 Marines. That is just nasty. Thrown in some Crusaders for durability and you have a well rounded close combat monster.
ReplyDelete@HOTpanda, the arcoflagellants bring in volume of raw attacks. Not to mention raw strength. What happens when you face 30 orks which charge you and the Librarian is dead and they are a naked unit? Those arcoflaggelants do more damage then the rest of the unit, but with the Librarian, they are the ones who are doing those magical str 7 attacks that's the str7+2D6 vs armour but in volume of attacks once the unit takes some casualties. Your analysis looks at MEQ's it doesn't look at GEQ's, it also doesn't look at recieving the charge or charging through cover or all these other aspects, all it shows is the favourable aspects to make the DCA's look favourable without any of the positives of the arco flaggellants.
ReplyDeletePanda's also not considering that the Crusaders will soak up the first 4 shots the unit get hit with. Plus against most anti-infantry weapons, the FNP is a 4+ save is more than enough.
ReplyDeleteSo, you have to hit this unit hard with a large number of shots to start dropping guys. Which is difficult when you also have GKs running around that you need to torrent down.
As nice as it looks, this unit is terrible without an IC with frag grenades. Otherwise the first time you have to assault into terrain you'll watch as the unit dies. 40 points for a Xenos with rad grenades can keep the cost down, then just throw in a couple of melta bomb acolytes to keep the vehicle angle covered.
ReplyDeleteOffensive Grenades are per model, not per unit. An IC with Grenades would provide no benefit to the Henchmen.
ReplyDeleteMy resume is in the corner... You probably filed it under 'who the heck is this guy'...
ReplyDeleteCK
@Dodger3 - My mistake. Basically, as nice as the unit is it sucks as soon as you have to assault into cover.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of cover and getting charged that is not what this unit is for as they need to be able to dictate the charge. As such the best way for that is to put them in a Landraider or a Stormraven. This solves not getting charged and it solves assaulting into cover. This is the only way that you can successfully use this unit.
ReplyDeleteThe Acros only get one extra attack over a DCA since it does not have two close combat weapons. Add in that its attacks allow saves and their extra attack starts to lose it value as armour saves get better. I crunched the math for both Acro and Death Cult Assassin (DCA) on their killing power for both units charging:
1.33 kills per Death Cult Assassin vs Ork/Tau/MEQ
0.88 kills per Death Cult Assassin vs TEQ
1.85 kills per Acro vs Orks
1.11 kills per Acro vs Tau (4+ save)
0.74 kills per Acro vs MEQ
0.37 kills per Acro vs TEQ
The DCA offers durability in that it denies 90% of its enemies their attacks due to their initiative. Add in that they have invulnerable 5+ save and they do not care what is hitting them. An Acro strikes last or at the same time at best thus their unit recieves more attacks. Yes it has a higher strength but it is not enough to over come the fact that its enemies get an armour save. With the bulk of players using MEQ based armies and so few horde options out there DCA outshine Acros.
Ok, So blogger will only let me post with this new account name.
ReplyDeleteMy mistake on the original post before I fixed it. Drinking too much that day!
Arco's are great because they can be in cover and get a 4+ cover and another feel no pain save. Their 5 attack on the charge are better against vehicles than the DCA. Yes the DCA have a 5++ but together they are a great unit. The same concept that having all of the same things isn't as good as having a variety of uses in the same unit.
My mind is totally blown by the awesome destructive potential of this!
ReplyDeleteExactly! For the points, how can you beat it?
ReplyDeleteI like it, I've been trying to push for 'acceptance' of warbands. I think they're amazing (and an ordo maellus inquisitor with daemon blade is also amazing), and I always fit one in every game I play, usually spamming storm bolters and using them as a fire support (Don't laugh: With a jokaero in the squad, 36 inch range storm bolters hurt!)
ReplyDeleteSpecifically, I run them with 3/4 crusaders. The inquisitor, however, always has power armour, and thus, can run with GKs just fine (give him a combi-melta or some such, and with a Daemonblade, he's guaranteed to be good in Melee)
I like it!