Monday, April 30, 2012

Adepticon Review: The Great, Ok, and UGLY!!

By Spaguatyrine





So a week after I took the 3 hour drive south to Indianapolis and have come down from the Adepticon high I want to give my review of the 10th Anniversary of Adepticon and my first visit t the windy city.



The Great:

The Westin Lombard IL Hotel Ballroom Pre-function

*The facility was amazing.  Here is the main hall leading into the gaming area on the right.  Even though I didn't sleep on the beds, I laid down on one for 5 minutes and almost fell asleep.  The facility was also close to quick food attractions and close to the interstate.  Great job here!!!  Even the food lines were good. (Except the french fries. Mine were gross, twice)



*Organization-Great job in organizing almost everything.  From pairings, to painting, to announcements. There are a few items I will touch on below, but an overall awesome score from me in organization.

*Prize support-Even though it didn't seem like it until our team won the Team Tournament, there was a ton of prize support for the winners.  I would have liked to see more random prizes. I am not sure there were any from what I recall.

*Staffing-I feel the majority of the staff were helpful and seemed to enjoy themselves.  This is a big one for me as I cannot stand grumpy people, and grumpy workers are even worse.  Great Job!



*The team tournament was unlike anything I have ever seen. Absolutely amazing!  If you haven't seen it you need to!!!!
The OK:

*The swag bag for the not first 1000 registered participants.  Well this was kind of like a kid going up to an ice cream truck and seeing everyone get these giant bags of goodies and then you are giving a lollipop. 

*Trying to find a judge.  The only time I actually needed one in game 4 we called for one and no one was in sight, we had to walk 4 rows down.   A majority of the time they were around, but it would have been nice to have one within close proximity.
*The line to pre-register was stupid crazy.  I didn't wait in line for 5 hours like some did for nothing, but I bet those people were very upset when they got there and didn't get the free bag. I just walked up after dinner and waited 30 seconds to register. 
*Mission selections:  Boo! having killpoints the first three missions.  What was worse is when killpoints combined with taking the center objective and table quarters. This gives rock armies too much power in a particular mission. If you are going to use straight killpoints, mix up the other objectives.

The UGLY:

*The lights!  The lights continued to go out during random times of the tournament all weekend.  This was very annoying as it seemed it always went out when I was rolling a die or trying to move.  This should have been corrected after the first night it happened. 

*The french fries! Yuk!

***Sportsmanship: So this is a sore subject for me as I was hit with the poor looser sportsmanship stick.  This is the worst thing I will say about Adepticon and I will more than happy to discuss specifics privately with an email.  That being said, Matthias was a gentleman, but had to stand by the rules of the tournament. I respect him for that even more. 

What happened?  Well my first opponent who built a killpoint denial deathwing army of a whopping 8 killpoints was as described by a few judges I knew as "weird".  He didn't wear shoes, had let's say a lot of hair.  Our game was going fine until his terminators starting falling into Jaws lines all game.  He lost 9 terminators to jaws, including 3 cyclone missile launcher models.  He started getting frustrated when I stayed away from him and started eating his squads 1 by one with the Thunderwolves and double runepriests with Jaws.  How I beat him in all 3 objectives with 17 killpoints is kind of telling.  I gave him a top sportsmanship score because we only had 1 rules dispute.  Little did I know he gave me a bottom score.  (Poor loser)



Opponent number 2:  Wouldn't you know it killpoint denial deathwing army of a whopping 10 killpoints.  I utilized the same strategy against him as I did against player 1. Stay away, shoot missiles, plasma, and jaws at him until my TWC could take 1 squad at a time. The problem I had was he had Ezekiel and blocked my Jaws twice before I crushed him with my TW Lord.  So on round 2 player 2 states I believe you are moving your thunderwolf calvary 1/2 and inch too much on their run move  after I have hit 2 cyclone missile launchers with Jaws.  I apologize, move them back 1 inch and state, I will pay closer attention. Please let me know if you think I move too far and I will fix it. I then proceed to measure, put my finger down, then move each model the rest of the game.  After the game is over I have all 3 objectives including kill points, and after I hand him the score sheet and start putting my guys in a pile he starts complaining.  "I don't know why you had to do that.  You kept on moving your guys 1/2 an inch too far."  I asked him if he was serious to which he said, "you were crushing me, you didn't have to do that." I then asked him what he thought I was doing?  I also explained that I was putting my finger down and even asking him if he was good with my movement before I went to the shooting phase.  "He continued to say, I don't know why you had to do that."  I asked for examples at which he didn't give any and then annoyed I changed his sports score from great to average, as he was clearly whining.  As we walk up and hand in our scorecards, (after we already handed them to the judge for verification)  he looks at mine and says, "you changed the score you gave me."  I look at him and say yes.  He then starts saying loudly I want to change yours then to a negative score.  Now call me stupid, but how does someone change their score after they turn in their sheet, after they have seen my score for him???????  Um????? Really??

Now normally I wouldn't have cared, but I get called over after this because:
I was told I recieved a negatve sports score from the first player and now the 2nd and if I get another one I cannot qualify for any prize support, or can be asked to leave the championships. ARE YOU FREEKING KIDDING ME???  The two players next to my in the 2nd game were screaming at each other and they didn't get negative games from each other.  I explain to Matthias that he changed his score after he looked at my sheet, after we both turned in our sheets.  Matthias stated he understood, and was very professional about this, but I should never have been put in his situation anyways.

  (Maybe some people need to see this film.)
So round 3, my opponent who was great, stated the way he plays, vehicles get 4+ cover save if they are in area terrain before the game starts,. Um..sure, if I disagree the game starts bad and...... then after he cast hammerhand twice, then tries to roll for force weapon, I inform he he cannot as he already used his psychic powers says, that isn't what I meant.......  At this point I was so frustrated, if I played by the rules, I would get another negative and it would have been done anyways..soo.....I just said whatever. 

The game should have been a route, but I allowed my 2 negative sports score to affect my games. 

So I ended the championships with 2-1-1.  Not what I was hoping but there it is. I have learned from this experience.  To try and not be so intense, and no matter what, hold true to the rules and if I feel someone is looking to tank me, let someone know it.  (or really be a jerk to earn the 'worst game ever' tag.  I laugh about it now though.  :)

So I HATE the way Adepticon has their sportsmanship scoring as part of the championship in a way to affect how someone can play the game, or punish others for being poor loosers.  I have only ever received 1 negative sportsmanship score in any tournamnent game I have ever played before Adepticon, and that is a ton of them. This might sound like whining. It is not!  Sportsmanship scoring should not be allowed to interfere in any way with a players desire to play in a competitive event.


And for that secret player that I was paired up with that actually lost a game and had his opponent give him the win because he already lost......shame on you for taking it. ;)  You know who you are.


In conclusion, a great event that I will probably go to again every year.  I give 4 out of 5 gold stars!!!


36 comments:

  1. Sorry the chipmunks were biting... Have to admit that was the thing that really killed playing in tournaments years ago, seems such a silly thing to base any part of the scoring of a major tournament on, especially when players have no incentive to play it fairly or honestly...

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  2. I have seen the same thing at a few tournies, where people lose and give you a negative sportsmanship score. I have gone way out of my way to be nice and have even conceded points when I shouldn't have just to save time, only to still get a shitty score. I understand the intent behind the scoring, but it's just too easy of a system to abuse.

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  3. Yeah man, sucks. I've had tournaments where I got a couple bad sportsmanship scores because *my* opponents were douches. Wish there was a way to fix that aspect of the hobby, but not entirely sure how to implement it.

    You're a pretty intense guy, but not a cheater for sure. Haha, at least, I hope you didn't cheat in our game, cuz I didn't catch it! :-p

    Also, I didn't notice that your first opponent didn't have shoes on, awesome!

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  4. what the hell man? i'm sorry, but i have to say it. i only ever hear about this crap happening in the big American tournaments. i have never seen it happen here in the UK. i think on one occasion, in maybe 10 or 12 large events have i seen a single disagreement. ridiculous. people really need to get a life (not aimed at you by the way)

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  5. Don't get me wrong, I had a great time! The chimpmunking was a horrible instance of poor luck, but I can say the event was overall a great one. The only other time I received a negative was when the guy I played gave me a 0 out of 5 because I crushed his poor list in round 1 of a tournament. He played a salamander's list without Vulkan, and had never seen thunderwolf calvary before. I even hugged the guy after the game. He even quit on turn . But I don't want that to be the only focus of the article. :)

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  6. I know the feeling, last year I was told "You pretty much have to blow me under the table to get a positive sportsmanship score" Good thing we were fighting for 200th place. :(

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  7. a certain person gave me a poor sportsmanship at a tourney once. It was mainly because I was beating him and he was getting irate and then threw one of his miniatures....literally. I still gave him a 3, and he gave me a 1.... it kept me from placing higher. Tell me how that is fair, when the entire tourney shuts up to hear the dude yell and scream at me? No I don't like sportsmanship scores at all. Especially when I do nothing wrong and a whiney little....you know what ruins it because you are winnning over him.

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  8. Welcome to the wonderful world of Adepticon .

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  9. I do really hate sportsmanship scores. It's a way for the loser to even the score, or just someone to be a complete arse because you've corrected them on some rules i.e force weapon and hammerhand. I don't see why sportsmanship score should reflect you telling someone they are playing the rules wrong, after all they are getting it wrong. Sportsmanship really is complete utter poo.

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  10. Adepticon's sportsmanship works if everyone is a good sport. It's a perfect system!

    All they really need to do is add a confirmation check. If you give someone a bad sportsmanship it has no effect the player unless another player confirms it in a subsequent game. If you give out a bad sportsmanship score and it is not confirmed, it negatively effects you(preferably slightly worse than it's effect would have been on the other player. You create an environment where you must be very sure you want to commit to giving a bad score, and sometimes you do.

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    1. In essence this is what the system sort of already does, or at least attempts to minimize from past Sportsmanship systems. 1 or 2 negative marks do not mean anything in terms of qualification. It requires 3 confirmed negatives, out of the 4 games on Friday, before a player is impacted..and this is after a judge reviews your opponent's history. The only negative impact a negative mark has is towards the Overall Showing awards on Friday. Players receive 0 points for a negative mark, as opposed to 3 for an average mark, which results in a rather somewhat subjective addition to your Friday overall score (not that different from something like appearance). Competitive players asked for the 'winner' to be determined without the use of appearance, quizzes, sportsmanship, comp, theme, etc. All that has been removed form the qualification process and has no impact on making it to the finals.

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    2. But there's no penalty for gaming the system. If you see someone deliberately tanking sports scores do you warn them with expulsion as well? They can't stop one of the top 16 from getting to the finals, but it could prevent a good 3-1 player from winning day 1 best overall.

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    3. There is no immediate penalty, and with 5 negatives across the day I am not sure we need anything in that regards. That said, the rules do state that player’s who negligently give out a large number of negative sportsmanship scores will have their marks called into question and the judges reserve the right to nullify any sportsmanship marks that they deem were not awarded in the spirit of the system.

      In hindsight, we should have immediately (or at least the end of the event) awarded Spag the 3 points from Game #2, whether he was informed about it or not. It simply got lost in the madness of the day and I have apologized to him for that - as the intention and execution of the changed mark was witnessed/confirmed by a floor judge during results submission. The current results posted on www.adepticon.org reflect this correction (moving Aaron up about 15 places).

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    4. And that is exactly the way I had hoped you guys would handle it and was really what I was getting at with all my comments. That with telling the person who got dinged the results seperately is exactly the way to handle it. Kudos to the Adepticon team. They really do a ton of stuff for nothing just to put on the best hobby event in the country.

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  11. Important to note that Sportsmanship in the 40K Championships has no impact on winning/qualifying for Sunday's finals, unless you receive 3 out 4 negatives (a majority of your games on Friday). This would require some dedicated collusion between your opponents, which is next to impossible. It was purposely designed this way so one (or even two) people could not chipmunk you out of the finals. Additionally, all marks are given the proper scrutiny when a player receives 2 or 3 (we have reports that show what you have received and what your previous opponent's are giving out for their other games). In Spag's case, our judges were fully aware of the reactionary downranking of his 2nd game and would have not counted that against him, simply because he did not deserve it. All in all, just unfortunate match-ups. BBF has it wrong again...no shock there. Over the 492 games played on Friday alone, we had a total of 5 negative marks...or 1.01%.

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    1. And Spags accounted for 40% of them :D

      But in a more serious note did you Matthias or your judges make it clear to Spags that the reactionairy mark down wouldn't count toward the possible 3 of being dropped from the event? I ask because having two black marks against you can completely change the way you play as it did for Spags third game.

      I am a little surprised that the judges allowed him to change his score at all after it had been turned in. To me that's inappropriate.

      Outside of that I didn't hear a single grumble (outside of to many GK's) all weekend and had a great time. The team will be back next year to defend its title and I'll be there to play in the Champs :) Oh, and switch epic to sunday so I can play it :D

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    2. Which why it is more of an unfortunate anomaly than the norm. Hindsight is what it is. I have apologized to Spag for any impact the system had on his enjoyment of the event. There simply isn't enough time to hold court over every sportsmanship mark...and if we question every negative, then we really need to question every positive, and that is just not possible. We have a system in place to check two things: marks you receive and marks your opponent's have given out during their other games. Reviews happen when the threat of disqualification is possible.

      People change scores, marks and all that all the time. You should see the mess on some of these results sheets. At the end of the day, we need to make sure the game results are accurate, as that is what counts towards qualification. Sportsmanship is up to the players, and while it has no bearing on qualification, this is good example of how it can impact a person's enjoyment of the event. I just hope everyone can see it for what it is...

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    3. Oh I fully understand that Sports has zero impact on the purely competitive track outside of possibly getting booted from the event :) And I totally realize that this is something a random occurance. It just highlights some of the issues with sports in it's current incarnation. But let's be honest. It's never gonna be perfect and random stuff like this is going to happen.

      Me personally, I prefer pass/fail with the sportsmanship award going to the guy who gets the most favorite player votes broken by battlepoints (i.e. the guy who kicked people's teeth in and they liked it). It has it's own issues though. Either way you guys ran a hella awesome event and I can't wait for next year.

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  12. At BeakyCon we dont use sportsmanship. There is a check box for each game to indicate your opponent was a d-bag. If it is marked then we discuss the game with both players. @ Matthias - I have no idea what you meant by your comment... are you implying that Adepticon is not wonderful ?

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  13. How was the Necron presence (changing the atmosphere lol)?

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  14. OMG! The solar pulse! Err... Lights going off was very annoying but I had a great time! I will go again! And again! And again! A lot more great than negative. Thanks Matt!

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  15. If I may derail the discussion for a moment and thank you for letting me take pictures of your grey knights and display... twice.

    I had taken one set of pictures and they did not turn out and you guys were in the middle of something and let me take a few shots more.

    I was some old geek in passing if you are trying to remember but that is not important.

    I just wanted to make sure your readers/followers understood that you were very gracious to me in the middle of the 'chaotic' between matches of the team tourney.

    Thanks again,

    CK

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  16. Thank you CK. I am glad you came back. :).

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  17. I've been there with the negative sportsmanship scores. If someone expects to win, then loses, there's a fairly good chance they'll chipmunk you.

    I'm far more disgusted that someone faked a game to get into the Championship. I assumed that's what happened, right, from the lines in red?

    I hope I misunderstood.

    It's not surprising someone would pull that, just disappointing.

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    1. Best to bring things like this up to a judge during the event so it can be dealt with. The internet won't do it any good.

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  18. Bah, a freebie is a freebie. Some guy gives up after winning, he gives up. I'd laugh at the guy who took the win, but I wouldn't knock him outta the tourney. Kinda like letting #4 go to semi finals when #3 can't make it. #4 Has no real right to go, but who cares? (I'd mark Brent poor just to get a rise out of him, though, ehhe)

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  19. Giving away a game in a tournament is an affront to all the other people at the event. Accepting it is unethical as well. There is no way to really tell if someone deliberately tries to blow a game to give it to someone, but actually reporting a different result is a shame.

    It is not like #3 withdrawing and #4 going. It is like #7 giving a win to #5 so they can take #4's spot - thus screwing #4 who just pulled out a hard fought win against #6.

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  20. It's not an affront. It's the player's decision to give up. You may not LIKE that he let another win, but that was his choice/charity-move/whatever. If he does not feel like advancing, that's his call.

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  21. Granted, the guy should be mocked and ridiculed, but there's no rule that says a general has to accept victory.

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  22. . . .Why you blame losses on being afraid of being kicked out of tourney? Think about it this was you jerk around worried about 2 bad sportsmanship scores and play less than quality and lose games, hows that any different than not getting prize support? If you're put in the same situation again skrew it just play.

    Sadly you also need to be able to be a good enough player to beat cheaters. There are those 2 psychic power in 1 turn players and my favorite the "you dont get a cover save (insert reason)." Should you have to deal with cheats no, but know they're there and you will eventually have to play them.

    Lastly. . .you sir are not the easiest person to play a game with. I mean this in the most respectful manner possible but I will say what needs to be said. You unknowingly I hope question every single move an opponent makes every step of the way. If I move a model you want to know how far and at what angle of the sun I'll be facing when finished. I have seen people assault you and you ask them to move their model back and measure it again, at that point its already skewed. My point is this, could part of it be chipmunking you? YES of course. But some of it could of been rightfully deserved.

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    1. Actullay I didn't blame my games on that did I? Hindsight is always 20/20. Secondly, I didn't one time ask the opponent any of the above examples you
      suggested. Yes I am an intense player, and that is my burden to bare and change. What I can say is that I normally do expect any opponent to play to the rules appropriately and never have a problem with someone holding me to them as well.

      I would disagree with your comment of rightfully deserved, but it doesn't really matter what you or I think, but what my opponents do. The fact that even with 1 negative, and not the second one, the end results would have been different, but that is not what happened and I am not crying in my beer about it. The event was a great one and one that I will continue to attend, support, and promote.

      Thanks for bringing my stuff down, and I want a chance to smash you on the table top again!! LOL! Just kidding of course. I wouldn't want to be a bad sport! ;)

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    2. I'm saying if you're in that situation again screw the other person and just play. Nothing you can do to keep them from screwing your score. Just win the game and go from there. I also said I have seen you do those things, not that you haven't changed or didn't do them at adepticon.

      I didn't say all of it was deserved. I would rarely give myself of my opponent a perfect score on sportsmanship because there's always something I/they could of done differently. Seeing soft scores becoming more common has really turned me off to the game and the tournament scene as a whole.

      You're welcome :-) I'm glad you picked it up. If you want to see me on a table top play warmachine, it's a more complicated game and in my 12+ months of play more balanced. I don't enjoy 40k anymore. I feel like if I don't play space marines I dont even have a chance. I simply don't have fun playing the army I want to play anymore because of all the new books along with a rules set that doesn't support me not having tanks. Sadly I think once I see 6th ed. I will be completely finished with 40k for good.

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  23. You know Spag, you aren't helping my case any on trying to avoid going to Adepticon. I enjoy the game and can have a great deal of fun but I just don't think I can bring myself to pay to play in those bigger tournaments more than once a year. BUT your comments on how successful and enjoyable they are isn't helping me not want to go.

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  24. Ted,

    You would have a blast! It was really exciting. Next year I want a whole crowd to go together. The team tournament was the most fun I have had in a day of tournament gaming ever! The energy was amazing, the crowd was incredible, and the excitement of playing with friends was very special. And if you shared rooms with a few people it is very cost effective. The 3 hour drive costs very little compared to traveling cross country for a lot of people. And this doesn't even discuss the fantasy and other games being played at the event.

    :)

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