So Adepticon is less than a week away and I am second guessing my army list. My original thought was space wolves as they are my best army overall at this point. I also hadn't played in nearly three months until this past Saturday........................
With the Grey Knights being so tough, the Necrons gaining speed, Dark Eldar getting more and more players, and not playing much lately I am kind of torn. On one hand my Space Wolves are battle tested at the highest level and performed fairly well, but the way I run my Grey Knights have been as effective if not better against all the new armies out there. To play my Knights I would have to get some stuff painted quickly. I have a majority of what I need, but it isn't in as good a paint shape as the wolves.
One pro to playing the space wolves is that they have all but disappeared in the last few tournaments I have seen, to include the Indy Open Grand Tournament I ran with having only 3 space wolves players. As a lot of players have jumped to the Grey Knights that played space wolves, I have wanted to play both. As I have stated in the past, when I have tested them against each other it is very close. Often the winner is determined by how many psychic powers the rune priest can block, and how many vehicles the longfangs can take out in the early rounds.
One con to playing the wolves is they are susceptible to Daemons and heavy mech lists. Not guard but AV13 potentially like blood angels and necron spam.
One Pro is the grey knights are strong and fit the way I play, fast, close combat assault oriented, good fire support, ability to manipulate board control, psychic powers and defense, etc.
One con in playing them is that there are so many people playing them, certain builds are tough against grey knights. Heavy purifier lists eat me for breakfast. I would also have to go with a sub-par painted army compared to the wolves.
For the Team tournament I will be teaming up with an all-star cast of Hulksmash, Nick Nanavati, and Andrew Gonyo. The army will look super sweet and deadly in the hands of 4 GT winners. We are of course playing grey knights in the team tourney. I look forward to playing with some great guys and having a blast.
What are your thoughts?
This will be the year of Grey Knights at Adepticon. If you bring them be wary of being charged in mirror matches - its brutal... I have seen Strike squads lay waste to Paladins.
ReplyDeleteWith Space wolves also having a lot of assault builds it kind of hurts when grey knights can do it better and with more reliability.
ReplyDeleteIMHO I would fear grey knights more then space wolves. I played against one of the grey knight players who attended the Indy GT and didn't have much of an issue with them but then again I play mech guard. Grey knights are the best all purpose army out there atm. Good luck and cya in the team tournament. Beware of team AwesomeSauce!
@tomb king,
ReplyDeleteGuard not being scared of my space wolves is also a plus for me. Grey Knights also have a tough match up against guard. My wolves don't. Something to think about. Team hulksmash will see you in the team tournament! You are almost in for the championships the last I looked.....
@back blow fly...which is why I am leaning towards the wolves.
For my two cents it is too late to switch armies now. That is unless you can get in at least ten game with a final list between Adepticon and now. So failing you calling in sick for the week I say keep the wolves.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to seeing you again next week while you are crushed under the unyielding grind of team snake eyes.
Scrap both and bring your DE, you know you want to.
ReplyDeleteI vote you go with the Wolves at this late date. Save the Gk's for Nova so you have a good what, four/five months to get your build tweaked and painting finished?
ReplyDeleteMy vote goes to the Wolves. As you said, they are the most battle tested, and I think that is what will take you to the top.
ReplyDeleteI vote Wolves too. I don't fear Grey Knights.
DeleteI really think the Drop Pods and the options for the Rune Priests are the big difference. Grey Knight lists aren't nearly as flexible, and when they meet with a bad matchup--and forcing GK into a bad matchup is what EVERYONE is going to be angling for--it's like watching them march into a woodchipper. MEQ is MEQ to Guard, Necrons, certain Marine armies, Eldar, etc. They don't care that you're spending 4-7 extra points per model for a Force Weapon and Storm Bolter and then more on some CC upgrades when they'd be losing CC to normal MEQ anyway, but they absolutely care that you don't have Melta and your only reliable long-range shooting can't destroy AV14.
ReplyDeleteAnd I still think your SW list would fare far better against Necrons in general than your GK list. The ability to double-Pod Jaws if necessary is an absolute nightmare, as well as Drop Melta being the only effective way (well, unless you have first turn and Scouting vehicles like Vendettas or Baals) to cut through Stormlord/Solar Pulse for early-game anti-tank.
I had to run contrary to the entire concept behind my army (basing my mega-unit on the Warriors rather than the Immortals so I could hide in the Ark) to protect myself from Turn 1 Jaws, which then screws me by just having the other Pod come down first instead, defeating the purpose and saving the Jaws for later. But in most cases, people won't have the capability (or desire) to hide from it like that--hiding an IC in a Ghost Ark is possible, but seeing MSS Lords attached to Warriors is going to be a rarity, and in the absence of MSS Lords (and potentially Wraiths) your Thunderwolves could run wild.
Most Necron armies are going to be a race to 24" under the cover of Night Fight--virtually all the shooting is 24", Scarabs are Beasts, and Wraiths ignore terrain for reliable 18" Assaults. With Drop Pods to cut through Night Fight and Thunderwolves/Jaws to out-Beast and out-24" them, you're in pretty good shape. Not to mention that Acute Senses will help you get some lucky Missile shots through Night Fight here and there, which is exactly what you did to me three times. Psyflemen, comparatively, would have been standing there being useless--as well as being a whole lot easier for me to remove.
If you hadn't broken off the TWC Lord at the end (which you wouldn't have if you'd been keeping track of KPs--KPs were already unwinnable for you at that point, and all the TWC did was go grab a meaningless KP on my other Court) it could have been a draw (basically a straight 50/50 to see if Zahndrekh gets back up after they murder him), and if you hadn't disembarked that Rune Priest's squad in board center Turn 1 it probably would have been an easy win long before. I wasn't sure what you were going for in that case--I assume you just underestimated how many S8 wounds I could drop on that squad to try to ID him out. A second Jaws hanging out in the middle of the board mid/late game would have been impossible to deal with, and getting him out to annoy some Immortals really had no possible upside.
You will face an inordinate number of Ork and Guard players at the AdeptiChamps, compared to most events. There are a lot of die hard Ork players who attend. Keep it in mind, as you don't want to overly meta the AdeptiCon event. Go with your strongest all comers force, and orient it toward the fact that like NOVA and Bay Area and others, it's a "bare win is good enough" format on the Generalship track.
ReplyDeleteGo with Space Wolves. You haven't played much in 3 months and they're the army you're familiar with. Spend the time that you would be painting playing instead. Remember the NOVA and how pissed you were that you had this gorgeous IG force that you weren't as familiar with as suffered as a result?
ReplyDeletePsst... This is Spag's post, not mine. We have several authors here. :P
DeletePart of me feels compelled to delete the previous post, but I think I'll leave it up as a monument to inattention.
DeleteI have found most recently that since there are so many Grey Knights out there, the general tournament scene has become very adept at countering them. This is just like how Space Wolves were 2 years ago. Since 25% of tournament is Grey Knights, everyone knows your book inside and out, has had a ton of practice games against armies like yours, and has thought about how they will more solidly beat you. Moreso, in their last 10 practice games, half of them were probably against Grey Knights. It's likely now that none of them were against Space Wolves.
ReplyDeleteIt is for that reason and that since your Wolves are your more practiced army, that I would suggest you go with Wolves.
I'd say scrap all, and Bring some Black Templar! No one will see that one coming, and who doesn't like re-rolls in close combat. That is if you can survive the Grey Ka-nigits :P
ReplyDeleteRun what you're comfy with. I haven't made my decision yet personally and both GK and SW's are on my list of things I might bring but if you want the most bang for your buck I'd take the most comfortable and best painted force you've got. Painting matters if you don't make top 16. I was 21st last year in competitive but dropped over 100 places once my paint score was added in on my bugs. Hence the reason my bugs aren't on my maybe bring to Adepticon list this year :)
ReplyDeleteScrap all of them and bring Sisters of Battle. Throw a wrench in the meta...
ReplyDeleteTo caveat my previous post. Take whichever army you are the most comfortable with. If you feel you know the capabilities and there reliability better with your space wolves then run them. It is an added bonus that they are painted better. Tbh it will come down to whichever build you are sporting with each. Without seeing an army list I cant give the best advice. You have my email if you are interested in that feedback.
As a person who has played with every army except orks I try to get comfortable with what each army can do and what they cant do before moving on.
Thanks to everyone for their comments. You have helped me make up my mind.....I am bringing my Guard.
ReplyDeleteWell not really, but I am 99.23% sure it is my space wolves.
@Godfrey,
I did buy the black templar codex last month......
@Tomb King,
I would take sister's but...i don't want to be screwed..... ;)
@Beer4thebeergod,
Wrong dude with guard and nova...but i get what you are saying....go back to your beer. :)
Yeah I got you confused with SandWyrm. Still you kicked ass with your Wolves, so stick with them.
DeleteAlso, that's actually your head in the intro photo, isn't it? :)
ReplyDeleteThe arrows nicely resemble his comb-over. Needs some buck-teeth though. ;)
DeleteAlright its safe to say I am too f*%&ing tired and need to get some more sleep and get away from my heavy work load. Didn't even realize it was a guy until now. Thought it was like an egg. To get this blot out the guy and look from far back it looks like a dam chicken egg. :( Attention to detail! FML. I will show up with guard this weekend and try to play vampire counts. If I do sit me down and give me a beer. lol
DeleteHey now!! Yes that looks similar!! It's my sexy look!
ReplyDeleteBri ng a Chaos Marine max plasma force. It can deal with anything, Thunderwolves, GK Draigo and blood crusher spam alike.
ReplyDeleteWarboss, don't be silly! Funny guy! ;)
ReplyDeleteI don't know Spag he might be onto something. I mean come on it's plasma and even better it's at the max
ReplyDeleteHeh...I mauled a Sternguard Kantor and a dual bloodcrusher spam lsit with it in test of Kaine (Lost to tau by 1 KP but it was with the guy who travelled there with me, so no biggie)http://40kwreckingcrew.aceboard.com/331128-602-9073-0-Test-Khaine.htm
ReplyDelete