Sunday, October 17, 2010

Upcoming Tourney: Lafayette Game Preserve

by SandWyrm

I found out yesterday from some players at Games 2 Die For that there's an upcoming 40K tourney at the Lafayette Game Preserve that I didn't know about. Everyone there was talking about the, um, interesting comp system that's being used.

Here's the info that I found on the store's Facebook page, where there's already been some discussion about the silly comp. I'll do a detailed critique of the system being used if there's enough interest from the readers here.

Personally, I have no interest in going, as I know that there's at least one more win/lose non-comp tourney coming up this year in Indy. So playing a random-matchup, 3-round BP system that encourages WAAC seal-beatings and soft-score cheating doesn't make any sense to me.

Warhammer 40,000: Autumn Tournament, 2010
The Game Preserve, Pavilions, Lafayette

When & Where
Saturday or Sunday, October 23rd or 24th, 2010, from 9:30 am to 6:00 pm.
...The Game Preserve, Pavilions, 100 South Creasy Lane, Suite 1030, Lafayette, 47905. (765) 448-4200.

The tournament will consist of three rounds, conducted in a Swiss format, each day. You can play Saturday OR Sunday, but not both. Standard Force Organization: each army must have at least one HQ (up to two) and two Troops (up to six) selections. You may have up to three selections from each of Elite, Fast Attack and Heavy Support (although there are composition point considerations. See below.)


- There is no entry fee if you sign up in advance! Day of registration, the entry fee is $10.00.
- Due to space restrictions, a maximum of 12 players will be allowed per day. The official sign-up sheet is in the store.
- Each player must bring one army of no greater than 1500 points. All army lists must be typed and are to be turned in the morning of the Tournament (you will not get it back). You should also bring a copy for yourself and perhaps your opponents.
- Armies must be selected out of current Codices. No Legendary or Apocalypse units or custom vehicles are allowed. Chapter Approved armies must be approved in advance by the TO.
- All figures in your army should be painted to level 1. If not, you will lose points.
- You must bring all relevant materials, including rulebook, codex, dice, range ruler, templates, etc.
- Optionally, you may bring a single piece of painted terrain with a base up to 6” x 9” and up to 6” high. You will be able to deploy this piece of terrain in your deployment zone.
- If there are any questions, email them to Carlos:

A player’s overall score will include points in the categories listed below. There are 114 points possible.
- Battle outcome (0-20 points per battle)
- In-Game Attitude (judged by game opponents 0-6 points per battle)
- Army Appearance (pre-game, peer judged 1-12 points)
- Army Appearance (TO judged basics 0-6 points)
- Army Composition (TO judged 0-18 points)

Each game will be played to the end of six full rounds or two hours, whichever occurs first. At the end of the round, all games still in progress will cease immediately. Any player deemed to be stalling will result in a five point reduction in victory points for that game, and that player’s opponent for that round will be awarded five bonus victory points (to a maximum of 20 and a minimum of zero).

9:00 to 9:30 Registration. Please be on time.
9:30 to 9:50 Pre-game, peer judged Army Appearance
10:00 to 12:00 Round One.
12:00 to 1:00 Lunch break. Fend for yourselves.
1:00 to 3:00 Round Two.
3:30 to 5:30 Round Three.
6:00 Awards Ceremony!

Prizes will be awarded for the following achievements during the Tournament.
- Best Overall score – Boxed set of your choice (< $90)
- Second best Overall score – 40K Boxed set of your choice (< $40).
- Door prize for one random tournament finisher – 40K Blister pack of your choice (< $20).
The winner of the tourney will also be immortalized on the Hall of Heroes plaque forever.

Battle Outcome
Each battle each player will be able to earn up to 20 points by destroying enemy models and through various in-game objectives. Successful armies will incorporate speed, firepower, and assault capabilities, while minimizing casualties. The Post Game Results Form will be printed on the back of your mission handout. Your opponent will fill out your Battle Outcome score, and initial it. Then you will take the form back, grade your opponents on In-Game Attitude and initial it.

When judging In-Game Attitude, consider the following and award one point for each bold question:
- Was your opponent on time and ready to play each round? Did he have all relevant codices, dice, templates, measuring devices, etc? Did he present you with a copy of his army list?
- Was your opponent pleasant? Or was he merely there to do some business?
- Did your opponent take set-backs in stride? Or did he drone on about how bad his dice are?
- Did your opponent seem to measure distances fairly? Did he “bend” any other rules?
- Were you and your opponent able to resolve rules disputes amicably? If a judge was called over multiple times, this may indicate that someone was a rules lawyer. If it was you, then perhaps you should give your opponent this point anyway.
- Did your opponent use good dice etiquette? Did he leave the dice on the table long enough for you to acknowledge them? Were his dice easy to read?

Before the tournament, you will grade all other player’s Army Appearance, ranking them from first to last, with your army last. Your criteria are your own.

During the tournament, the TO will judge every Army’s Appearance according to a simple method, earning one point for each of the following:
- Is the whole army painted to “Level One”? This means that every model is primed, with a layer of additional color on all parts of the figure. If any figures in the army are bare plastic, metal or primer, the player gets a zero for appearance.
- Is a consistent color scheme used? For most armies, models should look like they belong to the same force or squad, rather than looking like a miscellaneous hodge-podge of different forces.
- Are all the models in the army based? Is the entire army based with static grass, flock or sand?
- Is there a fair amount of conversion work? Cut and glue space marines are just fine. But are there any awesome poses that took conversion work? Any custom vehicles?
- Are the models shaded and highlighted? One layer of paint over primer is not good enough.
- Are the models detailed? Decals, free-handing, and other such details and iconography can really enhance the look of an army.

During the tournament, the TO will judge every army according to a simple method, awarding points for each of the following (the number in parenthesis is the maximum points earnable):
- Each troops selection that is at maximum size (2). Chaos will earn this point if their troops are at their chaos number (Tzeentch 9, Khorne 8, Nurgle 7, Slaanesh 6) or the printed maximum. Imperial guard will earn this point for each platoon with two or more infantry squads, but not for veteran or penal squads.
- If Elite is not maximized (2). One or two choices will earn you this award.
- If Fast Attack is not maximized (2). One or two choices will earn you this award.
- If Heavy Support is not maximized (2). One or two choices will earn you this award.
- If HQ is not maximized (2). One choice will earn you this award.
- For each troop selection over the minimum (4).
- If the army has zero special (named) characters (2). Anyone with a name counts, including sergeant and vehicle upgrades.
- If the army has zero duplicate, non-troops selections (2). You can have one Leman Russ squadron with three tanks, but not two squadrons. One Terminator Assault Squad and one Terminator Squad are ok. One Dreadnought, one Venerable Dreadnought, and one Ironclad Dreadnought are ok. Two Devastator squads with completely different numbers and equipment will not earn this award.


  1. wow. that's pretty bad - and i'm usually not as angry about comp scores as most people are. this sounds like one of those events that either hates theme lists, or only wants the builds of certain players to win.

    the crazy thing about it is that i can see that they want to enforce certain thematic aspects (chaos numbers, etc), but then they penalize you for either compensating for it or continuing the theme further than the troop slots.

    that and some armies just don't play well without maxing at least one slot other than troops. sure they can do it, but it means using stupid units or ones that break the theme. god help your if you are an ork player and actually want to get max points out of this and still be able to move all your models in less than 30 minutes.

    the g2d4 tourney on the 2010.11.6 looks to be a much better use of my time and gas.

  2. I need info for the G2D4 tourney so I can put it up.

    Yeah, good luck running Vulkan Marines, Sanguinary Guard lists or any other themed force that isn't IG Chimelta or Space Wolf Razorback spam. Tau and Necrons had better not even THINK about bringing their lousy troops with these restrictions.

  3. Ummm okay...

    The TO probably doesn't realise it but he has just given every pre-5th Edition Codex the 'finger'. They aren't like the 5th Edition codices with a nice spread of anti-infantry, anti-tank and mobility spread throughout the FOC and throughout units within the same slots. Atleast it is only 2 'comp points'.

    However, Chaos Space Marines just got a boost thanks to their Chaos Number. Could field something like Stelek's Havoc Launcher spam army...


  4. He's been told (see the Facebook comments), but brushed it off with a "does not" answer.

    The only time I've been to his store for a tourney was March of '09 when I brought my pre-IG5 foot guard and was only told after I got there that all terrain was LOS-only. Nothing counted as area terrain.

    Here's the report I did:

  5. Maybe I'm dense, but I don't get it- it says no custom vehicles; but then in scoring for paint, it specifically mentions custom vehicles.

    I'm all for painted guys; but this just seems to say "No Newbies welcome". Even the Mexi-Marines, which are 75% done, wouldn't meet their criteria. That seems nuts to me. If there's such a sportsmanship score, why penalize someone for not having a done army?

    Definitely not for me.

  6. Yes there are issues with these tournaments. I went to the last one and posted on my blog my frustration with how he ran the last tournament. I had 1st place in the bag and he allowed one of his regulars to give me a zero comp score with bad rules and didn't say anything about it. He listned and changed them up a little bit to try and make a better tournament. I do think he is trying to compensate too much for the last tournament. There are 4 of us from G2D4 going up there to see what we can do. Even though by looking at the facebook page it looks like things have changed. Splitting the prize support has changed. He hurts any army except marines in his comp write up. Even guard have to take full platoons if they want to max out their comp. Anyways, I will do a write up when I get back next week.

    Scott will have the tournament information by this week so I can get it out to all of you.

  7. wow. screws Inq. either I take a big honkin' platoon and one 20-strong sisters squad then 4 sisters squads in rhinos and a bare bones HQ to max out comp, to try and win, and possibly get hosed on chipmunk sports scores, or say screw the comp, and possibly get hosed by a marine army I pounded in the final scores.

    forget even trying GK's and IST's.

    I suppose I could do 10-man IST squads to count for my max size troops, and then take regular sisters squads.
    then put different wargear on any tanks from different slots, so there's no duplicates.

    that's a lot of hassle.

    good thing I wasn't going to go anyway.

  8. This is where ye olde DE shine... if I built a list to be competitive, the only problem according to this comp scoring would be two duplicate Ravagers... and that's only a couple of points.

    Of course, all the random other soft scores (although it's fully painted/based with some conversions... assuming I'd finish up the Raiders) may nip me. Who knows.

    Definitely looking forward to hear about the win/loss tournament coming up. I'm thinking I may actually pack a bag and head over to that one.

  9. I was considering going to this one, and visit while I was up there, but I really just couldn't force myself to deal with that comp. It is practically impossible to get a perfect comp score, and I don't think that is fair. For space marines to do it, that is 6 full 10 man squads, which leaves enough points for an Hq and MAYBE one other squad of your choice.
    And even if all of my other squads are at full strength, if I take one that isn't maxed, I don't get those points. That takes out Death company for me, since they are max 30. This also ruins almost all Tyranid troop choices.

    His response to me pointing that out is what broke the straw. Playing up there is fun, but it is a more casual "local" tournament, and that is how he makes his rules oriented. I wanted to run a fun list that would do well, and not get hit hard by comp, and use models I have painted.
    He pretty much said, we'll see if anyone gets unduly penalized, and we'll change it for next time. Well EFF that! So I have to get screwed over for you to see what's in front of you?
    Sigh /nerdrage
    Maybe I'll try and make it to the next one, if I can get off work, and just run a beat face list. I really don't like the comp they have up there. It has screwed me a couple of times. It's not 1997, comp needs to change.

  10. Meh. Why complain? We all know the scoring is lame, but it's his tourney, he can make whatever rules he wants. Just don't go. We have similar issues around here. It's made more folks organize on their own and a couple of nice little tourneys have been born.

  11. But I like to complain! also, I have friends up there, I like to play against, and the tournaments are nice ways to catch up with people.

    also, 3++ on "playing for fun"

  12. Actually TGM, If I'm reading it right, you'd only need 2 full 10-man Tac squads, and the other 3 could be 5 man squads with a Sgt. and Spec. Weapon.

    that would leave a lot of room for other stuff.

    or a razorspam list. with tac squads for 2 full troops, and assault squads for the other 4, all in fast moving BA razorbacks, supported by a flamestorm Baal, and a Ass. Can Baal. and some speeders.

    so not so hard to max comp....
    with a brand spankin new Marine codex, or even with the old, Blueberry marine codex.

  13. You are right farmpunk, I misread it. Not as bad as I thought. Though I still couldn't take both baal predators.

    Oh well, I can't get off work to make it if I wanted to. I wish those who are going the best of luck! I look forward to some good battle reports!

  14. Indeed. Lots of people are misreading the Troop section of the comp rule, mostly because he wrote it poorly.

    It's six separate single points, one for each potential Troop slot. To get the first two (for your two compulsory Troops) they have to be max squads, Chaos Number, or Guard Platoons.

    To get the next four points, all you have to do is take more Troop units, with no requirements. So if you take six minimum Troops, you get 4 points--you'll miss the two for not having maxed compulsory squads, but get the four for taking Troop slots 3, 4, 5 and 6. You can run full Melta Vet Chimera spam and get 4/6 of those comp points.

    Pretty much any competitive Marine or Guard army does fine by these standards--Scott plugged in his usual Vulkan list and I believe it's 14/18, only losing points for Vulkan and a couple Troop slots.

    If you run anything that doesn't love the Emperor to death, you have to rewrite your list before going. The list I ran at Saltire yesterday would be 6/18 comp and pretty much start me down an entire game to the Marine/Guard players.

    The thing that struck me above all else was that it's physically impossible for Necrons to run a max comp army under his rules. It would require 80 Warriors, which is more than it's possible to run at 1500.

    On the flip side, you can run three Land Raiders and get full comp. Joy.

  15. And I just got confirmation that he changed the prize support and split it between 2 days now so cutting the prize support in half. May not go now!


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