Yes this actual Rhino look a like has changed in 6th edition.
As I have 6 games in so far with mostly my grey knights and 1 with space wolves I have played against....
I have played against:
Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Guard, Space Marines allied with Tau x 2, Daemons.
Chimera anyone?
What I have found is light armor vehicles such as Rhino's, Razors, Chimera's, Venoms, etc last better on turn 1 and 2 but die horribly from turn 3 on depending on how much strength 5, 6, & 7 are on the board. Of course strength 8, 9, & 10 weapons do what they do, but I have seen a dramatic change in what strength 5, 6, and 7 can do in the new edition with hull points.
Obviously glances remove hull points and most vehicles have 3 with venom's and flyer's 2 for the most part. Below I have listed some weapons that can and should become very viable in the new edition that were just mediocre in 5th in shooting.
*Psybolt ammo on any grey knight squad of 10 or higher. (I suggest mostly on 10 man strike squads)
*Heavy bolter units of all types-Strength 5 multi shot weapons
*Autocannon's of all types. (Dakka preds combine heavy bolter and autocannon)
*Eldar weaponry such as Scatter lasers and Shurikan Cannons etc.
*Assault Cannons
*Multi Lasers
*Incinerators
*Plasma weaponry
*Krak grenades, haywire grenades. (Yes you can throw 1 Str 6 krak grenade and 1 haywire grenade in the shooting phase up to 8")
*Devourers on Monstrous Creatures
I am sure I am missing some, but the point is these weapons have become better at removing hull points and wrecking vehicles.
I use a tag team approach with my 6th edition list to destroy AV11 transports pretty quickly on turn 1 and 2 that I feel has helped tremendously.
With my grey knights I am currently taking 2 psyflemen dreads, 2 psybolt razorbacks, 1 Chimera, and 10 psybolt strike squad in a rhino at around 1750.
I tag team 1 psyflemen with a psybolt razorback, 1 psyflemen with the chimera, and the Strike Rhino with the last psybolt razorback. The idea is I shoot my psyflemen at a transport and I will average 2 hull points off an AV11 vehicle. (With cover saves only being 25% of the vehicle needing to be obscured an night fight happening 50% of the time on turn 1 5+ cover saves are much easier now). The psybolt razorback is almost guaranteed to knock off the last hull point off the damaged vehicle.
The 4 psycannon shots out the top of the Rhino(or disembarked 4 psycannon shots combined with the 16+ other strength 5 (heavy bolter shots) combined with the other psybolt razorback will drop another transport.
The other psyflemen and chimera with 3 multi laser and 3 heavy bolter shots has a great chance to knock out another AV11 vehicle.
Take a look at your options for strength 5, 6, & 7, their effectiveness is greater in our new edition.
More to come on 6th edition. What are your thoughts? Any new ideas or strategies that you have found work well so far?
By the way...I am having a blast learning the new edition. Except for people who argue about flying monstrous creatures all the time!!!!!!!! ;) LOL
ya, seeing my Rhino's glanced to death in one Crisis suit missile pod salvo was really fun.. . Really enjoying 6e so far regardless!
ReplyDeleteIt is going to happen. It is good you are having a great time. That is what the game is about.
DeleteSorry 'bout that, man. Although, had the game continued, the Vendetta would have taken down both of my Hammerheads instead of just one.
DeleteIt helps that a Pulse Rifle is also STR 5 and Rapid Fire from 15".
:-) Having spent a few years commanding 113's, I think the new vehicle rules are closer to the aluminum armor they sport... And I am finding that without an Infantry screen of some sort, light vehicles especially (well, non fliers at least) simply do not last very long these days... But, for the cheaper ones like Rhinos, it's probably to be expected... Kind of sucks for the more expensive ones though...
ReplyDeleteYes the melta still punks all vehicles so ........
DeleteOne thing I forgot to add was that sometimes you get an exploded on one or all of these 6 and that is just bonus for taking out more vehicles. In this edition if you have to footslog, your cover is much less and in general you will die faster.
ReplyDeleteI like that stuff dies faster, even my own Tau!
DeleteJust a note, everyone seems to keep saying "most Flyers have 2 Hull Points" but it's not even remotely true. Of all the Flyers currently in the game, only the Stormtalon has 2HP. All the rest--including the Ork and Dark Eldar ones--have 3HP.
ReplyDeleteThis is interesting Spag, thanks for putting it up.
ReplyDeleteDo you see any role, long term, for massed Rhino/Razor/Chimera spam anymore?
Sandwyrm,
DeleteI believe that transports are even more important in this edition than they were in 5th. Now that all vehicles can move flat out in the shooting phase meaning that the 18" move to get your troops there is needed because they die so much faster from shooting.
An example:
A rhino moves 12" and pops smoke. Then moves 6 more inches. Since you cannot assault when disembarking from a rhino, you kind of want the vehicle to be wrecked on the shooting phase so what you have left in the wreckage can get assault.
So the "tin can" analogy is true. If you want to assault you then you want the transport to die.
Razor backs are still viable and actually better in my opinion as they don't die as fast as long as you have other higher priority targets in front of them moving forward. If all you have is razors sitting back, then they will die from too much shooting going into them.
Chimera's on the other hand are better in my opinion for a few reasons. If you can combine them with autocannons, missle lauchers etc, then they become "tin can" popping machines. You can even pair them with what is inside them like plasma vets. Plasma vets are amazing now since you can move 6" fire 3 24" plasma shots and the multi laser. That is hitting 2 strength 7 and 1 or 2 strength 6 hits on an av 11 target. You are going to take at least 1 hull point off if not 2. And if you happen to pen with the plasma, plus 1 to the table. Plus the extra 12" front armoe make them invulnerable to the strength 5 shooting that is increasing. I actually believe guard have huge potential in this edition!
You can't use Smoke Launchers and go Flat Out in the same turn.
DeleteSmoke/Flat Out/PotMS all prohibit each other now.
Open topped has become brutal for Dark Eldar. They removed the reduced strength on explosions and with FNP now on a 5+ expected casualties from FNP wyches have spiked from around 20% to more like 50%
ReplyDeleteExplosions will be a little more killy, but it's no worse than 4th edition (quite the same, actually - except that there's a chance to actually have FnP).
DeleteYeah pre-measuring + night shields is super powerful, plus 50% of the time we have night fighting for a 3+ cover save between 12-24 inches if we get first turn and go flat out.
DeleteSpag- I personally believe similar to what you're saying. ANY army can take out light armor effectively now. 6th ed has made shooting more about quantity rather than quality IMHO. Stick around str6-8, I'm happy at this point with just wrecking vehicles and when I do blow one up it's a shocker.
ReplyDeleteSomething bigger than low armor that I've found to be a huge change is psych powers along with hoods. Idk how much you've played with these but I HIGHLY suggest you look into them. I've been running a psych heavy tyranid list focusing on swamping them down with different witchfires and maledictions. I dont think I'll ever use a standard psych power again.
Yep, that front AV12 on Chimeras rocks. Trust me, I remember everyone telling me how my Drop Pods were just easy KPs in 5th because they were "just AV12" and open topped. It was amusing how they took a real AT gun (S7+) to reliably pop them. And if you wanted to waste your time popping my Pods (other than last turn KP grabbing) with stuff that could have been shooting at my killy umits, feel free.
ReplyDeleteThe gorilla in the room I think being missed is that while vehicles took a bit of a hit for "game survival", they got better at "first few turns" survival, but mainly for those that are crossing the field. That Auto/Las Predator sitting on the back row not moving is going to sit there shooting and laughing as you try to put HPs on AV13, which takes the new "uber" S7 Autocannon at a minimum. Mass transport rushes will still work to deliver troops across the field. The biggest problem...the AV14s. If you think the Predator was bad, a Land Raider can be worse. Even a charging LR Crusader/Redeemer is tough enough to deliver the goods, shoot some stuff up and soak up a lot of your heaviest fire unless you get lucky with the even more elusive golden BB. Of course, once it is in melta range...
Yes, melta, because Lascannons didn't get that much better. They are just pretty much your only chance to stop AV14 across the board for Imperial armies.
I absolutely agree about autocannons being dead hard in this edition. I played my first 6th Ed game last weekend and included two Leman Russ Exterminators with HBs all around and stubbers on the roof. Those things were shocking in how many bullets they put out a turn (eight twin-linked autocannon rounds between the two of them plus 18 HB rounds!). Nasty to pretty much anything that wasn't armor 14.
ReplyDeleteAbosolutely! Guard got better at cracking vehicles!
Delete