Monday, March 14, 2011

Who Really Benefits From Feel-No-Pain?

by SandWyrm

While the 40K Interwebs are gearing up to cry about 2-wound GK Terminators with Feel No Pain, I thought that I'd bring some clarity to the discussion. What is the real benefit of FNP rolls for different troops?

The math is pretty simple. Whatever your chance is of failing a save, FNP cuts it in half. Thus as the base armor save increases, the benefits of FNP decrease. Here's the odds of passing a lasgun save for the different armor values with and without Feel No Pain.

6+ Armor = 17%
6+ Armor and FNP = 59% (42% Gain)

5+ Armor = 33%
5+ Armor and FNP = 66%
(33% Gain)

4+ Armor = 50%
4+ Armor and FNP = 75%
(25% Gain)

3+ Armor = 66%
3+ Armor and FNP = 83%
(17% Gain)

2+ Armor = 83%
2+ Armor and FNP = 92%
(9% Gain)

Yep. If you have a 2+ save, then FNP only adds 9% to your ability to survive a lasgun or bolter wound. While you gain nothing in terms of surviving a plasma or melta wound. So is FNP really that big of a deal? Frankly, if Sanguinary Priests didn't also come with the ability to grant Furious Charge to my BA Sanguinary Guard units, I'd never bother with them.

Dark Eldar, on the other hand, benefit extremely well from Feel No Pain. Give them  a pain token and they can get a 4+ save versus Heavy Flamers and Bolters. Not bad at all really. Orks wish they had that kind of durability. It means that once they get warmed up, Wyches can run out into the middle of the field without worrying about any gun under S6.

So keep that in mind before you cry. :)


  1. Another thing to consider is that most of the things that you already use to deal with 2+ armor pretty much ignore FNP anyway. You're a litter safer from bolter torrents, but plasma guns still kill you just the same.

  2. You made the point I was going to make. FNP is kind of useless to anybody in terminator armor. You are going to hit termies with some serious stuff.

    I never trust math hammer personally, but it is nice to see a break down. The survivability of the Dark Eldar Increased so much with the Power From Pain rule

  3. After running some test games vs the new GKs as Blood Angels, you'll be very very happy with the bump up to 83% for power armor that FNP gives you.

    The mainstay of GKs is massive 24" firepower, I'll take 83% of those shots wasted, kthnxbye.

    Infact, I am formulating a theory that FNP power armor is going to be a major counter to GK shooting, and make no mistake that have TONS of shooting.

  4. But the other way around: if you only had a 10% chance to take a wound in the first place, a 9% decrease is a massive benefit.

    FNP makes you more resilient against torrent weapons, which Terminators are already excellent against. It makes bringing them down by simply forcing them to roll saves all but impossible, even for IG and Orks, who otherwise can force insane numbers of saves.

    The fact that most weapons that are effective against Terminators ignore FNP and rather a lot of them also cause Instant Death means that Paladins are not actually that impressive of a unit. Not bad, but not all that scary, either.

  5. It's all in the use of the unit. I have played against BA Terminators with a priest and a couple shields and believe me it's rotten tough. I have always been a fan of killing terminators with torrent of fire or power weapons but I don't always like getting close enough for assault.

    Now sure plasmas and meltas ignore the FNP. But a smart player knows that and will build an army that makes you choose your targets wisely. Sure use your heavy fire to kill my paladins while my Dreadknight moves into position or my raiders with grey knights come storming to the front.

    FNP may not look great on Paladins but don't underestimate it either. See a unit like that will almost have to be shot because if they hit your units it may be the death of you unless you can overwhelm it with power weapons. The fact that you may have to focus fire on it may allow other units just as nasty to reach you.

    Now sure guard may have no shortage of weapons but I am finding more and more players ready to fight guard and build list with them in mind. These new books are bringing a sense of balance to the game in the sense that no one book trumps them all. I think GK's will find their place without a problem.

  6. With the exeption of krak missiles, I find that 3+ FNP is the same as a 2+, and math proves it.

    It is frustrating when you pump a lot of shots into MEQ and only one or two die, and now that is ignored on a 4+.

    On terminators I feel it is unneeded for the most part. I'd rather spread it around on the 3+ guys, and make everyone like a 2+.

  7. I think looking at it from this angle skews the perception of what the numbers actually mean. If you look at a model's chance to DIE rather than survive, you get something like this:

    6+ Armor = 83%
    6+ Armor and FNP = 41% (50% Gain)

    5+ Armor = 66%
    5+ Armor and FNP = 33% (50% Gain)

    4+ Armor = 50%
    4+ Armor and FNP = 25% (50% Gain)

    3+ Armor = 33%
    3+ Armor and FNP = 17% (50% Gain)

    2+ Armor = 17%
    2+ Armor and FNP = 8% (50% Gain)

    Now the argument about AP1/2 weapons still remains, especially for high Str shots that will insta-gib your 2 wound models, but you still have the invulnerable save at least. Against small-arms fire the numbers here do not skew the perception of the benefits of FNP.

  8. Either way, you should probably still keep the Wyches in cover.

  9. @RecklessFable: You go right ahead, I'll bring the marshmallows ;)


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