Wednesday, March 30, 2011

GKs and Comp

By TheGraveMind

This was a thought I had when I first saw the Grey knight codex, and I think it is a little bit confirmed seeing everyone's list ideas. The first two things I noticed when flipped through the display copy of the codex were these; 2 troop options, and almost 4 pages of Hq, most of which were Unique. It seems the majority of the troops people are thinking about taking are unlocked via a character. Paladins, purifiers, henchmen, all unlocked via an HQ choice. This is a good thing for a book and leads to a pretty good army design, one that GW has been following of late. But here is the core of my thought; How will comp be effected by GKs?

I have limited experience so this leads to a small sample size and I realize I'm making a broad generalization with my next statement but what the heck. Comp = old school diehards = old school GK players. Now I'm sure not all comp players are old school, I'm sure not all GK players are old school, I'm sure not all GK players play comp etc etc. But from my experience near a third of the turn outs to comp events have been GK players. I'm sure many of them will continue to play in their comp events, but with so much of the new book being seemingly dependent on Characters, I have to wonder what effect this might have on Comp.

Many Comp events do not support Special characters, or if they are allowed, you take a penalty somewhere for it. 90% of the lists I've seen have used these characters, granted most of these have been from people who don't normally go to comp events. Is comp attendance going to drop and they have to change? Will the the GK book cause a rift in the old school vs new players?


  1. Very few places still put a restriction on special or unique HQ's. Lafayette does, but I haven't been to anyother tournaments like this. The fact is that GW and 40k is pushing unique characters to sell a theme, to pull in more players who want all purifiers or paladins, or twin linked melta guns and thunderhammers, or fatecrusher, or outflanking platoons. It sells more models. The comp=old guard=extinction=my opinion.

  2. Just to broaden your sample set, I play Grey Knights, I love my Grey Knights, I usually get killed with my Grey Knights, and I hate Comp and the person(s) who devised the foolishness with an burning passion. I haven't and will not participate in a tourney w/ a 'comp' component. Now, that all out of the way...

    I think maybe you have a causality problem in your analysis. You seem to be saying that the GK players play in an event because they like the comp thing. I think the GK players play in the comp tourneys because those are (arguably) the only tourneys where they stand a chance at placing. With the new Codex, that shouldn't be an issue anymore. Play with the grown-ups and use those cool special characters and odd troops or play in the kiddie pool w/ vanilla Grand Master and terminators, either way you should be competitive. There it is, my opinion. Worth exactly what you paid for it :)

  3. Many European tournaments restrict or ban special characters (which is a very bad idea IMHO, considering GW latest trend to enable specific builds with special chars) so this is going to be interesting... I can only hope this will make TOs rethink this.

  4. Now that there are a good number of tournaments where comp is not a factor, I'm less concerned about the few holdouts that still include it. You don't have to play in comp'ed tournaments anymore because they aren't the only game in town anymore.

  5. the reduction or flat out banning of special characters imho is the dumbest thing a tourney can do. Sorry but, if i am reading a book about "barry" the leader of the space marines, im not going to buy into a series if we dont have the heroes, which in turn kills the hobby because the story isnt good. i for one never would have played the orks if it wasnt for the story of wazdakka who takes out a frickin titan because hes that bad a##!! and so what if you use one, it generally makes a certain list good for certain types of games but not as strong for others.

    idk, my opinion is quit whining and have a good game.

  6. On the flip-side...I'd be more worried about competitions being solely dominated by over-powered SM Codexes like GK and BA. It kinda means that basically if you don't field one of those forces you're likely to get squished pretty darn quick.

  7. I don't think either of those codex's are over powered. I also have never seen a comp format recently that didn't hamper older codex's more than the new ones thanks to all the fancy new FOC shenanigans that the 5th ed codexes can do.

  8. Ugh. Comp. I don't like it.

    SandWyrm and I wrote a few articles about how comp messes up the competitiveness of tourneys.

    Comp actually typically hurt my WitchHunters far more than it ever hurt SandWyrm's "overpowered" IG.

    Some of the newer codexes offer much more redundancy over more Force org slots. Take a look at the IG book. Each slot can do multiple things.

    I don't think the GK book is overpowered. I think it's actually bringing them more in line with the other 5th ed codexes. That being said, GK's will change how some armies are played (Nob Bikers, and Thunderwolf Cav)

    Special characters are a fact of life in WH40K 5th ed. Everyone's got 'em, and they let armies do 'fluffy' lists.

    I think if you really want a 'comp' tournament, just tell people what army list everyone's allowed to bring (the same list).

  9. nob bikers now are gonna be doing the invulnerable cybork save. and sluggas are turning into shootas for my attacks. but you know it happens. looking forward to the relase of codex necrons or its alias: more overpowered than your mom. lol

  10. None whatsoever. The comp perspective is, above all things, influenced by the 80s-90s trend in special characters that needed opponents' permission, additional list building restrictions at the Grand Tournament, and an errata process that mainly responded to the amount of public drama generated over a rule - whether any given comp advocate was actually around in those days or not, the legacy lives on in the form of received wisdom. You really think anything that happens in the twenty-first century is going to influence that?


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