Taking into account the feedback that I got on my last list, here's another possibility that's more optimized for the 24" game. Using stuff I have that can realistically be painted in time.
HQ
165 Company Command Squad w/3 x Plasma, Regimental Standard, Chimera
70 Primaris Psyker
Troops
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera
125 Platoon Command Squad w/4 x Melta, Chimera
115 + Infantry Squad w/Autocannon, Chimera
115 + Infantry Squad w/Autocannon, Chimera
75 + Heavy Weapons Squad w/3 x Autocannon
145 Veteran Squad w/3 x Flamer, Demolitions, Carapace
145 Veteran Squad w/3 x Plasma, Carapace
Fast Attack
130 Vendetta Gunship
130 Vendetta Gunship
120 3 Scout Sentinels w/Autocannons
Heavy Support
165 Leman Russ Demolisher w/Hull Heavy Flamer
190 Leman Russ Executioner w/Hull Heavy Flamer
Total: 2000 Points
That's 8 scoring units, 20-21 Kill Points.
At 24", my math-hammer says the averages are:
- 12 Unsaved Wounds on 3++ Thunderwolves
- 4 Unsaved Wounds on FateWeaver
- 25 Dead Marines (11 in cover)
- 44 Dead Orks (23 in Cover)
- 46 Dead Guard (25 in Cover)
- 5-6 Suppressed Transports (Or 8-9 Dark Eldar Raiders)
- No Hellhound for erasing Orks, Nids, Guard, and Eldar.
- Only 3 Melta units.
- No long range Battle Cannon.
- Not as mobile overall.
Honestly I think you should just think about how you want to play the game. An army list should fit you and your play style. I have seen good players play solid lists and lose because they play the army wrong. Most of the time it's because they are used to being in the other guys face or they are being too reserved when they should be getting in the thick of things. Players have tendencies to do certain things and knowing what your tendencies are is very important. I think you understand the game well enough and what does and does not work in an army so think about what works for you. If you like being fast and mobile with your guard then do it. It's much better to build a list that fits you and tailor your approach to an enemy then build a list that has all the bells and whistles needed and it not feel right. Skill is an important part of winning and that inlcudes knowing not only how your army works but how you work as a player. I tell players all the time who ask for advice on a list "take what feels right to you" it's not that I don't care but players need to be more aware of how they work not just their army.
ReplyDeleteAlso if it helps. I have played you many times and seen you play just as many. I see you as a reserved player not how you like to build lists but how you play. I just see you as a better safe than sorry kind of player for the most part. If you're not sure what kind of player you are ask the guys that play you the most and see what they think. Once you know how you play you can make a list that fits you or maybe you will be more aware of what your tendencies are when you are playing to change how you play to better fit your army.
Sorry if this seems directed at you. It really is just more so general advice to anyone having trouble with building a list.
Believe me Strung, I'm not looking for someone to hold my hand and tell me what to take. I'm bouncing ideas off of the community here and seeing what you guys think of them. I then mentally process that criticism and try to come up with my own answers that fit my play style.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the best points made in the comments to my last list were that I couldn't put enough wounds on the enemy at 24". That's fair because it's important to beating Wolves, GKs, Dark Eldar, and Daemons. What I might like has little to do with reality in that regard.
There were other criticisms that I'm putting less importance on, because I don't think that those readers understand how I play IG. But I still want to hear what they have to say, because it tells me how my list will be perceived by my opponents. That's valuable too. :)
would you mind explaining your reasoning behind putting the plasma vets in the vendettas. also, why give them carapace? i get the flamer/demo/carapace vets, but the other squad just doesnt seem to wrok in my head.
ReplyDeletealso, why in the name of all that is holy would you take a heavy weapons squad instead of a hydra?
ReplyDeletedont really get the sentinal squadron either, if i'm honest.
Heavy Weapons Squad is scoring. And they can take up to 3 Lascannons, where as the Hydra being a vehicle, a single Lascan shot can take it out. Plus and extra autocannon, and with "Bring it Down", all three can be made twin-linked. At least those are the reasons I would choose a HWS over a Hydra.
ReplyDeleteAlright full critique. --Insert Salt Grain Here--
ReplyDeleteHQ
165 Company Command Squad w/3 x Plasma, Regimental Standard, Chimera
-- I approve. I run an identical command squad. Sometimes I add a Plasma pistol to the Commander, but it is the first thing to go when I have to cut points.
70 Primaris Psyker
-- I approve again. I understand there can be net arguments against him, but I love running him too. I often cannot find the points for him, but when I do, he decimates things.
Troops
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera
-- Standard issue. Can't go wrong. I've been experimenting with 2xSpecial Weapon squads with 3xMeltas a piece, hijacking a chimera from my two foot-based infantry squads. You save 70 points, but sacrifice 1 BS and 1 LD. I'll probably be going back to Veterans, if only because you can't star the game in the chimeras. Regardless, solid choices.
125 Platoon Command Squad w/4 x Melta, Chimera
--I'm not a fan of the CCS with meltas. When it blows up, you almost automatically lose 1-2 meltas. It isn't a horrible choice, and I struggle to find a good use for the PCS in my lists as well, but if you need to trim fat in later versions of this list, I'd start here. Maybe stick them in a Vendetta as a cheap scoring unit, or reserve them for late game walk on objective holding.(Can you only reserve a portion of a platoon or do you have to reserve the entire platoon?)
115 + Infantry Squad w/Autocannon, Chimera
115 + Infantry Squad w/Autocannon, Chimera
-- I don't like heavy weapons in Chimeras. They force hard decisions on me, move up or take a few shots? I don't like options like that in a game. It leaves me with a case of the "What If's" afterwards. I like infantry squads, and if these had meltas, I would approve of them in your list. But if you want to keep with the mobile force, and you want to keep everyone together, I'd consider changing autocannons for meltas, or rethinking this combo.
75 + Heavy Weapons Squad w/3 x Autocannon
-- Back field scoring unit? I like it. I use two heavy weapon squads of Mortars in the same fashion. Never leave home without them.
145 Veteran Squad w/3 x Flamer, Demolitions, Carapace
-- As I said before, I use this same combo, courtesy of you. However, after Mike Brandt's comments last Friday I am going to toss the carapace and try to just keep them in cover. I played a game against GKs on Sunday afternoon, and both my carapace squads were wiped out early on, with cover. Carapace didn't help them at all. It is 60 points saved. As with the PCS, if you want to trim fat for later on, look here maybe.
145 Veteran Squad w/3 x Plasma, Carapace
-- Blocking unit? Same as the above squad. Maybe try cloaks. Post up on cover somewhere, take 24" plasma shots. Carapace doesn't save my plasmas that often from overheating, as I am sure you've noticed with your company command squad.
Fast Attack
130 Vendetta Gunship
130 Vendetta Gunship
-- Standard issue. 2's company, 3's spam. Haha.
120 3 Scout Sentinels w/Autocannons
-- Competitive? Maybe, maybe not. Cool? Absolutely. Tactically useful? Yes. Fills a role? Of course. If you like them, and find them useful, keep them.
Heavy Support
165 Leman Russ Demolisher w/Hull Heavy Flamer
190 Leman Russ Executioner w/Hull Heavy Flamer
-- You can't really go wrong with heavies. I like having long range heavies, because I found myself getting outgunned by Space Wolves and shooty IG lists. I run a bastion breacher medusa, a LRBT regular, and a manticore. My LRBT gets his cannon knocked off round 1 each game. Medusa and Manticore are awesome. If these two work for you, run them. I would consider the Manticore, personally, but I understand if you need some AV 14 up front to keep some of the enemy guns off your Chimeras.
"125 Platoon Command Squad w/4 x Melta, Chimera
ReplyDelete--I'm not a fan of the CCS with meltas..."
Should be
"125 Platoon Command Squad w/4 x Melta, Chimera
--I'm not a fan of the with meltas...."
Truer words about your army's play style were never spoken. Every time I've tried blood angels, I get my ass beat. Every time I Ork out, I either beat face or give a foe the fight of his life. Which seems weird, because they are both pretty much assault armies. Some players just do well with certain armies...
ReplyDeleteIt looks solid. My only real question is where you intend to place the Primaris. My option of choice is in a PCS or Vet squad in a Chimera. It is a marked bump in firepower while retaining mobility. In this list, my only guess would be the HWS to allow for better order perfomance. Nightshroud might also be useful in that instance as well.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the delay in responding. I've been out of town for most of the week and yesterday I locked myself away to get stuff painted for NOVA.
ReplyDelete@Atreides
ReplyDelete"would you mind explaining your reasoning behind putting the plasma vets in the vendettas. also, why give them carapace? i get the flamer/demo/carapace vets, but the other squad just doesnt seem to wrok in my head. "
The Carapace Vets are multi-role. I might put them in the Vendettas, but usually I don't. Their primary purpose is to block assault troops such as TH/SS Termies, Orks, and Nids.
@BoxerSaint
ReplyDeleteJust because I buy the Infantry Squads transports doesn't mean that I have to put them inside. There are games where I will, and there are those where I won't.
As for the Carapace Vets, blocking troops are no good unless you can stand up to a round or two of bolter fire.
@Ironweevil
ReplyDeleteThe Primaris will go where he's needed. That might be the HWS for boosting orders/firepower, the blob, or a melta Chimera. It depends on a lot of factors, including how many hoods are in the other army.