List Question: Battlewagon Orks

by SandWyrm

In my last post on Ork competitiveness, amidst the arguing about their randomness, Lehcyfer asked for an analysis of his Ork list. Which I didn't have time to do during the family festivities of Easter weekend. Now that I've had a chance to look it over though, I kind of like it.

Here's the original comment, with my comments inserted. Keep in mind that I'm an IG guy, not an Ork guy. So my experience comes from playing against them, not with them.

lehcyfer wrote:


@SandWyrm & uberdark: On a tangent, not directly correlated theme I'd like you to say what you think about an ork list I'm boiling for half a week now. It's an exercise in one dimensional army list - namely maxed BW's in 2k.

It's not competitive as it can't be, but I'd love to see the face of my opponent seeing the 8 BWs :)

Hmmnnn... this reminds me of a certain battle I played once. Ah! Here it is:

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-i-won-battle-without-killing.html

Now obviously Battlewagons aren't Land Raiders. So it would go down somewhat differently. But like a lot of scary mono-builds, it's only really scary to inexperienced players.

So from here on out, I'm going to approach this critique from a balanced take-all-comers perspective. In the hopes of coming up with something more competitive at all levels of skill.

(Snip Other Pre-List stuff)

Final list:

HQ
85 Warboss (PK)
85 Warboss (PK)

ELITE
195 Nobz x3 (3 shoota/skorcha, bosspole) + BW (big shoota, deff rolla)
195 Nobz x3 (3 shoota/skorcha, bosspole) + BW (big shoota, deff rolla)
195 Nobz x3 (3 shoota/skorcha, bosspole) + BW (big shoota, deff rolla)

TROOPS
195 Nobz x3 (3 shoota/skorcha, bosspole) + BW (big shoota, deff rolla)
195 Nobz x3 (3 shoota/skorcha, bosspole) + BW (big shoota, deff rolla)
155 shoota Boyz x20 (Nob w/ PK)
155 shoota Boyz x20 (Nob w/ PK)
155 shoota Boyz x20 (Nob w/ PK)

FAST ATTACK
35 warbuggie (TL rokkit launcha)
35 warbuggie (TL rokkit launcha)
35 warbuggie (TL rokkit launcha)

HEAVY SUPPORT
95 BW (big shoota)
95 BW (big shoota)
95 BW (big shoota)

2000 Total

The army is made of similar blocks, so learning to use its units is simple. That makes it easier to concentrate on tactics.
What I see is 5 Nobz' BWs trying to get as fast as they can to the enemy and roll over it. The Boyz' BWs go slower, trying to shoot their 120 dices of dakka every turn. Warbuggies come between, trying to snipe enemy AT.
After opening transports, nobz unload, burn survivors and try to mop them up. Troop nobz go with warbosses (perhaps this will make them live little longer). Still working BWs flatten everything left like crazy. Whatever remains gets clobbered by boyz. 

SandWyrm's Reply:

Since a take-all-comers list needs long-range suppression fire, the warbuggies are what I'm most interested in. Their missile launchers are twin-linked, so they have about a 54% chance to hit. Which is slightly better than an IG Sentinel. Though the Sentinel gets better weapon options (Autocannons and Multi-Lasers for multiple shots). Against which krak missiles suffer about a 30% penalty in effectiveness.

Still, it's something reliable for long range anti-tank. Here are the odds for 3 Krak missiles at the targets you need to kill:

3 BS3 Krak Missiles Vs. Chimera (Side) - AV10
    Stopped Target Movement: 60%
    Stopped Target Firing: 73%
    Destroyed Target: 31%
    Did Nothing to Target: 20%

3 BS3 Krak Missiles Vs. Rhino - AV11
    Stopped Target Movement: 51%
    Stopped Target Firing: 63%
    Destroyed Target: 24%
    Did Nothing to Target: 30%

3 BS3 Krak Missiles Vs. Chimera (Front) - AV12
    Stopped Target Movement: 39%
    Stopped Target Firing: 50%
    Destroyed Target: 16%
    Did Nothing to Target: 42%

Problem is, you've only got 3 in the whole army. Three single shots is nothing; it's so tactically insignificant that I would just ignore them. To make buggies threatening/reliable as an anti-tank unit, you'd have to max out the squadrons at 3 each. To get there, we would drop a Nob+BW squad and find 15 points somewhere to do so.

So great, now you have 9 Warbuggies (is there even an official model for these?). But now we have to think about how they're going to play on the field. This army is going to have a LOT of vehicles moving forward. Tactically the BWs should run right in, while the buggies should scoot down a flank to try and get side shots.

But there are problems with this. On a properly set up table, you're only going to have a few clear paths open to send the buggies through. Which may interfere with the paths the Battlewagons need to take. Yes, the BWs can just smash through terrain, but they still might end up behind some Buggies and effectively blocked if you're not careful with your movement.

Buggies themselves are also much more blockable than a Battlewagon is. Not that you should be seeking to get close with buggies, but you might need to contest objectives or something later. So perhaps we should trade a unit of buggies for something that can hop over terrain, other vehicles, and wrecks when needed. So I would drop a unit of buggies (and another BW) for a unit of Dethkoptas. Since we can have five in a unit, I will. That way I have more shots and more buzzsaws to assault in later with.

Notice I said "later", because they need to hit their target at the same time that the Battlewagons do, and not be sent in kamikaze-style on turn one, which is how almost all Ork players throw them away now. Instead, scout them around a flank (like IG players do with their Vendettas) and start popping important targets for a turn or two before moving in for the kill.

That way an IG/SM player has to worry not only about the Battlewagons coming right for him, but also about the koptas that could swoop in from his side. Forcing him to try and deal with both at once. They're also a great way of taking out (or limiting the movement of) isolated units like Vendettas, which an IG player needs to get around to your side in order to take out Battlewagons. Or, they could be used to maul or dictate the movement of that GK Stormraven that wants to land on your flank and drop it's Librarian with summoning.

Ok, so let's make a list with all of this in mind:

    HQ
85    Warboss w/Power Klaw
85    Warboss w/Power Klaw

    Troops
275    4 Nobz + Painboy w/4 x Shoota/Scorcha, 1 x Power Klaw, Bosspole, Battlewagon (Big Shoota, Deff Rolla)
275    4 Nobz + Painboy w/4 x Shoota/Scorcha, 1 x Power Klaw, Bosspole, Battlewagon (Big Shoota, Deff Rolla)
160    20 Shoota Boyz w/Nob (Power Klaw), Bosspole
160    20 Shoota Boyz w/Nob (Power Klaw), Bosspole
155    12 'Ard Boyz w/Nob (Power Klaw)

    Fast Attack
230    4 Dethkoptas w/4 x Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas, 2 x Buzzsaw
105    3 Warbuggies w/Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas
105    3 Warbuggies w/Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas
   
    Heavy Support
115    Battlewagon w/Big Shoota, Deff Rolla
95    Battlewagon w/Big Shoota
155    Battlewagon w/Big Shoota, Killkannon

Total: 2000 Pts.

I had to drop a Kopta to beef up the Nobs a bit.

The 'Ard Boyz go in the Wagon with the Killkannon. They're your reserve and will be sitting in the mid/backfield to hold your objective. Their armor will keep Marines from sweeping them aside with bolters on the last turn of the game.

The Warbosses go with the Nobs, of course. I didn't give them armor because it's useless against meltas and heavy flamers anyhow. While the Painboy will at least give you a flamer save.

One unit of 20 Shoota Boyz goes in the last wagon with a Deff Rolla. The other takes the plain wagon and follows behind the front line guys. These run forward and smash like you'd expect.

The Koptas and the buggies run down a flank and try to take out what they can with side shots. They're also there to mess with your opponent's movement so they can't just scoot away from the rolla wall or zoom melta torpedoes at you too early.

That's about as reliable and balanced as I can make Orks. The Dethrollas are still D6 hits, but most everything else is predictable enough to rely on. Even if it's not as spectacular as you might get with more luck-based units, it won't suck as bad when your luck turns either.